Women, Wealth, and Worth: A Conversation with Grace Arnold

Women, Wealth, and Worth: A Conversation with Grace Arnold

01:01
Grace Arnold
One thing I do need to start with is to say that I am a registered investment advisor representative with Greenup Street Wealth Management. So this discussion should be considered for informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered investment advice.

01:16
Mara Kamat
Hello everyone and welcome back to In Her Land, where we highlight amazing women who are leaders in their fields in and around the land. Mary. I'm Mara.

01:26
Carrie Aguilar
And I'm Carrie. And each show we sit down with women leading with purpose, the kind of women who build, rebuild, and reimagine our communities from the ground up.

01:35
Mara Kamat
Today we're joined by wonderful Grace Arnold, a financial advisor, writer and advocate for women's financial empowerment. Welcome, Grace. We're so happy to have you.

01:46
Grace Arnold
Thank you. It's great to be here.

01:48
Mara Kamat
Before we dive in, Grace, could you give us just a brief overview of the first portion of your professional path and career? What kind of roles have you held and what inspired your transition from corporate to a more entrepreneurial path?

02:04
Grace Arnold
Yeah, I have been in finance my whole career. I started out interning during college. I found myself in the banking industry at that point in time. I spent a number of years working in wealth management, trust administration. I got to work with charitable trusts and foundations. Kind of when you think of how we individuals interact with money, that's kind of what I was doing in the banking landscape. I transitioned from that role over into asset management. So I worked for a pretty large asset management firm in Kansas City for a number of years as well. Asset management is what's in the account. So we all have retirement accounts, we might have investment accounts. What is inside of them in terms of funds and ETFs and potentially even more specialized investments.

02:55
Grace Arnold
That is what asset managers do is we build those strategies, we maintain them, we adjust them, and ultimately sell those to individuals or institutions like retirement funds that might be using those. So I was in that landscape for A number of years.

03:13
Mara Kamat
For people that might not know what is an etf?

03:16
Grace Arnold
Oh, thank you. Great question. So it stands for exchange traded fund. An ETF is if you've heard of a mutual fund. Yep. It's a type of investment vehicle that essentially pools together a number of holdings. Stocks could be even fixed income instruments. Different companies, different. Different investments. Pools those together into this basket, into this fund. A mutual fund and ETF differ in pretty important ways that have a lot to do. Tax management, where an etf, you're essentially, you're able to trade more actively through the day and you're not necessarily trading in a basket along with everybody else versus a mutual fund is marked to market on a daily basis. And those are the two vehicles of choice. If you think about what might be inside of your retirement account, it essentially comes down to tax efficiency between the two types of structures.

04:14
Mara Kamat
Good. Thanks for explaining that.

04:15
Grace Arnold
Yeah.

04:16
Mara Kamat
Getting back to you.

04:18
Grace Arnold
Yeah. So asset management. So I had a few different roles. I always like to say, you know, how it's a good experience to be in the service industry and to experience how. What it looks like from that side of the table. I feel the same way about sales. Like, being in sales is a great learning experience in terms of rejection and volume and everything else. So I was actually selling funds to advisors.

04:45
Carrie Aguilar
Oh, cool.

04:45
Grace Arnold
What I do now.

04:46
Carrie Aguilar
How long did you do that for?

04:47
Grace Arnold
I did that for a couple of years and quickly I was very good at hitting my numbers. But the path, the career path for that particular role, it involved the traditional sales job of wining and dining and golfing with, you know.

05:03
Carrie Aguilar
You don't have a 60 handicap?

05:06
Grace Arnold
No, I have not been off the driving range ever. It's funny. I'm actually going to a conference where I'm supposed to be golfing at the beginning of June.

05:14
Carrie Aguilar
Oh, fun.

05:14
Grace Arnold
And I don't know how to golf, so that will be really interesting.

05:18
Carrie Aguilar
But the financial services industry hasn't changed that much.

05:22
Grace Arnold
No, no, it really, it. It hasn't. And that's what I was in the beginning of or through my career. It's all observation and learning what this industry really looks like from the inside. And you're right, like, jokes aside, it's very. It's very much what you would expect. Yeah, it's very male, very traditional. I remember there were like jokes at the bank of, you know, you can't wear brown shoes type of thing. Like, hyper, conservative environment, very frat feeling. So always feeling a little bit on the outside as a female that didn't really fit into those jokes or into the mold. But yeah, so that's really where I grew up and what I was exposed to for the start of my career.

06:05
Mara Kamat
So why the choice to move out of that sales role and into the next role, which I assume is financial service? Financial management. But what was that?

06:14
Grace Arnold
Yeah. So my next role after that was actually was more strategic. So I moved into strategy roles. I determined that I hated sales, but that I loved putting together sales strategy and starting to see how can I manipulate the system to be more successful for myself. For almost self preservation at that point. But I loved doing that. I love working with systems and technology. And so I basically got a role created for myself within the organization to lead the sales enablement strategy there. Over the years, I kept moving up the corporate ladder. I was one of those. I was very achievement oriented, very driven to succeed and do well and get my gold stars and you know, get the good. Get the good reports and everything like that.

06:59
Grace Arnold
And so over time, just kind of moving up that corporate ladder, I ended up in a leadership position. I was a vice president of strategy for our retail division. I think I was the youngest vice president at the time. And my job was to.

07:14
Carrie Aguilar
Good job.

07:15
Grace Arnold
Thank you so much. Yeah, yeah, I was very proud of that. And my job was essentially running the corporate strategy across that retail division.

07:23
Carrie Aguilar
Cool.

07:24
Grace Arnold
Which took on a whole other layer of insight into how corporate works at a high level.

07:31
Carrie Aguilar
Cool. And then going back to Mara's question, what. What was like the shift? I know that there was like a riff or something, but beyond that you were able to go back into corporate and you decided not to.

07:42
Grace Arnold
Yeah.

07:43
Carrie Aguilar
Can you break down what. Where your head was at?

07:47
Grace Arnold
Yeah. So eventually I came to the realization that corporate path was not necessarily what was right for me. Long term. One of my mentors, and he's still one of my really good friends and we keep in close contact. He used to. We used to talk about this all the time. And he would liken some of the decisions being made at the top level. He likened it to a bunch of war generals in a war room moving pieces around a table. Right. And setting up the ships and this.

08:18
Carrie Aguilar
You're not worried about the people. You're more worried about the strategy and figuring out how to win.

08:23
Grace Arnold
Yeah. And so that became really evident to me. That was. That's how it is. It's. It's a bottom line. What you're driving toward as a participant in a company, in a large company is making the people above you look good and improving the bottom line. That's what they care about. And for me, it just kind of came down to. After a lot of reflection, I don't want. I'm not comfortable being a piece of in this game. And I also don't want to be the man in the room moving the pieces either. I want to do something that allows me to have tangible impact in what I call real people's lives.

09:02
Mara Kamat
So you had that revelation, which is amazing. And what did you decide to do at that point?

09:08
Grace Arnold
So I made what I would consider. I'm still in finance, but I made what I would consider a really big and meaningful career shift. So I moved out of kind of the strategy zone and I said, what? You know, considering. What else can I. At this point, I have my cfa. I have my cfp, or I didn't have my CFP at this point, I had my cfa. But a note on the CFA as well. I don't talk about this that much, but it's a very rigorous exam and I'm extremely passionate about knowledge and education and bettering myself. This is something that I talk to my kids about a lot. I reflect back on it, and one of the reasons I got it was to feel like I earned my space in the conversation where you were.

09:52
Carrie Aguilar
Yeah.

09:52
Grace Arnold
Yeah. So especially as a woman in the industry, from my perspective as a career woman in the industry, it's like, how do I make people take me seriously? Yeah, I'm gonna get. I'm gonna get the hardest exam done that none of these, nobody else can do. And that was how I. And I look back on that. I'm like, that's messed up. That's what it required. Although. Although I'm also. I loved that test. I love taking tests. I always found it to be like, when I was studying, because for the cfa, I was studying for a solid three years because it's a three part program. You have to pass each level.

10:25
Carrie Aguilar
It totally makes sense why anyone who has a CFA on LinkedIn has, CFA next to their name. Yeah. Because it's like I'm. This is eye opening for me. Okay, keep going.

10:35
Grace Arnold
No, it's one. It's. They're the letters that I'm like, yeah, I'm putting this.

10:38
Carrie Aguilar
Yeah. Wherever I go. For sure.

10:40
Mara Kamat
Also have your cf.

10:42
Carrie Aguilar
I do.

10:42
Grace Arnold
Yes. Yeah, I also. And then I have. I'm a. I have a CDFA as well, which is pertaining specifically to divorce. So I love letters. At a certain point, I need to stop adding them and I also need to stop taking tests. Like the other day, I Was like, should I get like the tax one?

10:58
Mara Kamat
But why not?

10:59
Carrie Aguilar
This is so funny.

11:00
Mara Kamat
Why not?

11:01
Grace Arnold
Yeah, exactly. That's where it's like. So I, I find test taking and studying. So I did it. When my girls were young, I did it. I was studying. I started studying for the CFA when my. I had just given birth to my second and I had a three year old. And this is, that was my time. I would wake up early in the morning, it was dark. I would put on relaxing study music playlist on Spotify. And I would put on. I had these little fairy lights I would put on and I'd have all my books. And that was like my time. It was my time to study and I loved it. And all the things made sense.

11:40
Carrie Aguilar
You had your coffee. I had.

11:41
Grace Arnold
Oh, I definitely had my coffee. Beautiful cup of coffee. It was lovely. I reflect back on it with enjoyment.

11:47
Carrie Aguilar
Yeah, that's wonderful.

11:48
Mara Kamat
Okay, so what does this new, more entrepreneurial career look like for you?

11:54
Grace Arnold
Yeah, so I, I ended up transitioning and this was actually through many conversations. I did not take the decision lightly. But I ended up, I had a few people as they were knowing, as they knew that I wanted to make this shift, say, hey, have you ever thought of being an advisor? And genuinely, I said, nope. Never thought of it before. It had never crossed my mind. I was like, so in my corporate bubble. But the more I reflected on it, I was like, I have the knowledge, I have the experience. I see how women are very underrepresented in that field. And so it's not just me as an insider from a career perspective feeling that way.

12:35
Grace Arnold
It's literally anybody out there in the world that wants a feminine point of view to help describe to them how they should be managing their finances is not getting it.

12:44
Carrie Aguilar
Yeah.

12:45
Grace Arnold
And I started toil with this and I got pissed. I'm like, that's not fair, that's not right. And where I felt like in the previous versions of my career I was helping myself career wise, but not necessarily others, I felt like this was my opportunity to maybe make a difference some people's lives and have tangible impact. And so that's what I transition to.

13:09
Mara Kamat
But also a risk for you. Right. Because you go from this very stable corporate job. I don't know this to be true, but you can correct me. You go from this very stable corporate job where you make a salary to now I'm gonna go be an advisor, which means I'm starting at zero and I don't have a significant financial flow of money until I build my clients.

13:32
Grace Arnold
It was a. It was totally a risk. Yes. And the funny thing is, I. So in my households, my husband has always worn the entrepreneurial hat. And I have since day one, since we graduated from college and that bank that I interned for reached out and gave me an offer letter for a new job. I have always been like, benefits, salary, 401k. I've got this all handled. I've got the consistency. You go do the variable stuff, and it's a great partnership. And so for the first time in my life, I was considering doing something different than that. And it was totally terrifying. And it was very much like building not only something that I didn't know if I'd be good at it, but then also, I didn't know if it would be consistent for me and my family, for that matter.

14:24
Carrie Aguilar
Heard. You know what I think is really interesting is we. So my husband and I just met with our. Speaking to how you were like, there aren't a lot of women in this industry. My husband and I tell you this. My husband's an educator, and people who are listening know. And the last time we met with our financial advisor, we, like, we recently moved to who handles our money. And it drives me bananas because we have this meeting. First of all, my husband has never showed up to a meeting about our finances. I am the person who's always there. I'm the one who sets it up, who, like. And Jane. And my husband doesn't even know where it is. So let's just. That's how our dynamic works. And, like, recently, we have decided we're gonna be more united and educated and whatever.

15:09
Carrie Aguilar
It's all great. But I'm sitting with this new person, and we're on a zoom, and this guy is just talking at my husband and asking him questions. And James is like, you're talking to the wrong person. Here's. You really have to be talking to Carrie, because I have really no idea what you guys are like, what you guys are talking about. And so I totally understand. It feels. I have never. Well, I shouldn't say I've never felt so unseen, but. And then I will tell you that the only reason why he really engaged me in a conversation was after he asked me what I did, and I talked about how I worked in tech and I did sales strategy, and I invest in businesses. And then all of a sudden, he was like, oh, as if that made me worth talking to.

15:55
Carrie Aguilar
But it got under my skin so much. Like, so much I wanted to be like. So if I wasn't doing this. Would. Would you actually not. Would you still be directing your questions to.

16:08
Mara Kamat
It's really interesting. And Grace, I'm sure you have a perspective. Aaron's partner is female and I think that has been like an incredible dynamic for them because I think Aaron being my husband who's in the financial services space and as an advis, Erin recently brought in two female partners. And I think that is a really important thing for any business in the financial services space because you are, you're talking to the husband and you're talking to the wife and I don't know how you feel about it, but like how you see family dynamics when they come in to meet with you and how you make sure, like how are both parties seen and heard and part of that conversation and if somebody says, oh, only one of us is coming, like how do you see that?

16:54
Grace Arnold
Yeah. So first of all, blood boiling over here. This frustrates me to no end to hear about your experience. And I think it's nothing against that particular advisor. This is literally just the way that it is and what people assume. It is what people assume. And so the whole point is we break that apart. We don't. It starts with everything that we're talking about today, how I approach going into any conversation. So I will tell you, I primarily, not by design, but just literally I think by who is attracted to work, wanting to work with me. I work primarily with women or women led households. And so there are plenty of women led household like your example there of I'm the one in the relationship that is managing the assets and the finances. And it's good to have that balance.

17:52
Grace Arnold
I always recommend no matter what, whether it is the what. Whether it is the man that is more on the backseat or whether it's the woman. I always like to have the more strategic conversations as a group. We're going to get into a lot of tactical and technical financial planning topics. But there are certain topics that are strategic. You are setting the course for your life. You're talking about needs, you're talking about what your objectives are. What you're scared of are things that I don't think there's any reason why your whole household should not be represented in those discussions. And then it's just as simple as not making assumptions, not valuing somebody too that's perking up when you hear, oh, you've got stock on, you're worth talking to. Okay. That is such a, that is such a trait of this industry.

18:46
Grace Arnold
It's being very money driven. That is not how I like to work. I like. I gravitate toward people who want to learn. And I'm like, hey, you. You'll give me the floor to explain taxes. I'm gonna take it. And that's what we're gonna run with. I think a lot of people attach dollar signs, naturally. And so my kind of recommendation, I know we're gonna talk about this more, is just never, this is your life. This is your money. This is your space. They are working for you, and you claim it and feel free to put them in their place. You know, in the meantime, my husband.

19:23
Mara Kamat
Is in this space, works on this space. But we still do annual financial plan for ourselves. I make him sit down with me, and he basically does an investment report of, like, where we're at, what we're saving, how we did, what's in our 529s, what do our 401ks look like? What does retirement look like? Where did we spend money? And I'm like, every year, I'm like, I want a full financial analysis. I want an know where everything is, and I want to be part of that conversation, even if it's your business. This is our family. This is our life. I also want to know everything. And I think that there are a lot of women that just go with the flow and don't take an active role in understanding their family finances and really digging in to be part of setting that strategy.

20:13
Mara Kamat
And I think it's really important, the work that you do with women so they, one, have that voice, and two, are part of that conversation and have the knowledge to be part of that conversation.

20:23
Carrie Aguilar
So what's interesting is what spurred this whole having Grace on the podcast for me was we're actually a part of the same book club. And last month we read Strangers, which is, if you guys haven't read it's fantastic. But it's a memoir of this woman's marriage, essentially. And the synopsis is, basically, this woman is, she had been married, they have three kids, she was a lawyer, he works in hedge fund. They live in New York City. In the first week of the pandemic, they move to Martha's Vineyard, where they have a house, and he decides that he's unhappy. She finds out that he was having some sort of affair, they had a wildly happy marriage, and he just goes up and leaves. And she realizes over the course of her.

21:11
Carrie Aguilar
Them getting divorced is basically, she just gave away her power and her really understanding where their financial world looked like because she was being so encouraged to take care of the kids. And quote, unquote, he had the finances. And at the end of the day, it really messed with her. And when I tell you this book just made my blood boil because I feel like this is the story of every single. This is like my family. This is my aunt. This is. It's just so sick. And I'm just. I'm so happy that she wrote this book because it is just like this. I love that people are like, oh, it's airing dirty laundry. And I'm like, let's fucking look at the laundry. Like, we. Because there are so many. We have to be in tune.

21:59
Carrie Aguilar
So I guess my question now that I have this diatribe is how do we ensure that women never feel that kind of. What do women need to do even if they're like, their husband is in the driving seat of that conversation.

22:12
Grace Arnold
Yeah, it's hard to. It's hard to condense that into a quick fix item. No, but. And that's what we always seek out. So that's one thing we always seek out. What's the thing? What's the thing I'm gonna do? What's the one thing? And it's a lot of little things. I think the big theme of this is participate, ask questions, be in the room, do not feel like you don't deserve to ask the questions, and don't feel like it's not your place and somebody else has got this. I'm gonna give. I'm gonna share some stats that to me, feel very sobering in this topic. This was from a 2020 UBS survey that was all about women's financial literacy. 56% Of married women defer all financial and investment decisions to men. So that's thing one, thing two. Paired with that. That on its own is something.

23:14
Grace Arnold
When you pair that with the fact that 80% of women at some point in their life are going to be solely responsible for their finances, think about what that means. I see that I've seen this happen with my clients through divorce, through death, through a diagnosis. Those are very real things that can happen to any of us at any given point in time. And it is not a MA. 80%. It's not a matter of if, but when are you going to be thrust into the seat and be like, okay, up to you now, where are we going? What's going on? What do you have? And so in terms of what women can do is participate. Know where your accounts are, know what's in them, know who your people are, who your advisors are. Feel free to call them and put them on the spot.

24:05
Grace Arnold
Be like, explain this to me, what's. What are we doing here? That is what they're for. And so I wouldn't hesitate a second,.

24:11
Carrie Aguilar
I would get involved percentage off of your money. So just.

24:14
Grace Arnold
Yes, they are paid. They are being paid. That is their job. They work for you. That's what they're there for. And anybody worth their salt. Is that the expression?

24:23
Carrie Aguilar
Yeah, it is.

24:23
Grace Arnold
They'll be thrilled to get the opportunity to talk to you about what they see strategically for you and help you feel better about the path you're on.

24:33
Mara Kamat
Practically speaking, what should every woman have, especially moms when it comes to financial accounts or safeguards?

24:41
Grace Arnold
Okay, so I talked about some. I talked about a couple risks that are out there. Number one is this maybe goes into a little bit of what should you do? But it connects into the what if we think about what the potential risks are that exist. And I mentioned three. I mentioned the three Ds, those divorce, death diagnosis. Divorce, death diagnosis. And this could be. I know this is heavy. This is just real life, what we talk about. It is important to think about at some point in time the what ifs. What if I. What if something happened to me? Are my kids going to be okay financially? What if something happened to my husband? What if something happened to both of us together?

25:34
Grace Arnold
As hard as it is, think through those what if scenarios and make sure that your shit is in order to accommodate that titling. This is so simple, but it is something that is so overlooked. Titling how? First of all, you should know where all your accounts are, what they are, know how they are titled. I have worked with clients that have.

25:58
Carrie Aguilar
When you mean titled, is it who owns it? What do you.

26:01
Grace Arnold
Yeah, so the. So who owns it and then who the beneficiaries are.

26:05
Carrie Aguilar
Okay.

26:05
Grace Arnold
Many times people forget to put beneficiaries on or they forget to update who the beneficiaries are. We spend. People love to go straight to the wills and to the trusts and everything else. At the end of the day, one of the most important factor is how is the account itself titled. So making sure those safeguards are in place and that if something happened to you or your spouse or the two of you together, that things would pass appropriately as you would intend would be a huge piece of hygiene. I would just recommend making sure you're on top of I. I like to recommend that women have an individual account in just their name. I think it's good to have joint accounts and it's good to Have.

26:48
Carrie Aguilar
Do you mean like a. Like a stock account just in their name or just a checking? What do you mean by that?

26:53
Grace Arnold
Yeah, it could be either. So you have to. I actually wrote an article about account types on my sub stack too, because I'm really fun and interesting.

27:01
Carrie Aguilar
But it's a cool. It's a cool substack.

27:03
Grace Arnold
Thank you. But yeah, account types are important to understand. So retirement accounts, just so that those are always going to be in an individual name. You cannot have a joint retirement account because it's specifically tied to your birthday and your age. Brokerage accounts is what I would call what you invest in. So were talking about mutual funds and ETFs. Those are accounts that can hold these stocks or these bonds or these assets that have the opportunity to grow, but that also carry with them some risk, inflection situation. Those accounts can be joint, meaning both parties have equal claim to those assets, can transact with them, can make decisions on them, or they can be individual.

27:46
Grace Arnold
So that's one where I do like to recommend that, especially women, I think it's good to have accounts that are individually in your name as some of that safeguard that's in place and as a way for you to make sure you have something you're fully engaged with and that is there for your own goals. Checking accounts and savings accounts, those are not going to hold assets. They're going to hold cash. And again, that's where, either as a household or as an individual, or a combination of both, having those accounts with sufficient cash in them to cover what you might need in an emergency. Some women, they call it the FUnd. I love that. I love that descriptor because the whole concept of it is do you have a fund or a. FU stands for fuck you.

28:37
Grace Arnold
I didn't know what kind of podcast this was, but it's essentially a pool of money that allows you to say, okay, fuck you, bye. And that's valid too.

28:48
Mara Kamat
It's interesting. I love my grandparents so much and I love my parents. My parents have been married forever, but my mom's parents didn't always have the best of marriages. But back then you didn't get divorced. And as individuals, they were amazing humans. But I think that always seeing the lack of independence that my grandmother had shaped my mother's decisions about how she was going to live.

29:13
Carrie Aguilar
Yes, she talked about it on the.

29:14
Mara Kamat
Podcast and then shaped how I live as a female. Meaning I have my own separate accounts, I have my own separate money. We have some stuff together as well. And I've been Like high school sweethearts. With my husband married to him for 17 years. I love him so much. He knows that. But there's this level of independence that I was always raised with and I've also worked really hard. I will always stand on my own two feet. And that doesn't take away from the love that I have for my husband, the partnership, and we absolutely have that. But I am a big believer and I hope I continue to raise my girls with the perspective of having that financial independence is healthy in a relationship and healthy for women.

30:02
Grace Arnold
Yeah, it also, I think it helps to ensure that you have ownership. And ownership can, it can literally mean the ownership and it's also, but it's also the engagement. So by having your, you have your own account and you have these, it forces you to be like, I'm going to be on top of this. I know what it's doing, I know how it's invested. It eliminates that risk that you just, you know, fall off into the backseat and lose that touch with reality.

30:32
Mara Kamat
I also feel super proud of it. Like my dad made me start a 401k when I was 16 years old and working at the mall and he was like, you gotta put up to the max in your 401k. And so I always did that even in my like mall jobs growing up. And today I see that money and I'm so proud of that. So there's also that element of owning what you own and being proud of the success that you've achieved as an independent female as well.

30:58
Grace Arnold
100%.

30:59
Carrie Aguilar
Okay, two things. Your sub stack is called Girl Math with Grace, right?

31:03
Grace Arnold
Yes.

31:03
Carrie Aguilar
Okay. I just wanted to put that out there because we talked about it but we didn't put a name to it. And then the second thing is I want to shift this a little bit. So we've established Mara has girls. I have a daughter. And I know you have girls too.

31:16
Grace Arnold
Yeah, I have two girls. They're 10 and 7.

31:18
Carrie Aguilar
Oh, I love that.

31:18
Grace Arnold
Yeah.

31:19
Carrie Aguilar
Yeah, I have a 10. We both know we have 10 year olds. Okay, so what?

31:23
Mara Kamat
10 Year old too.

31:24
Carrie Aguilar
Oh, that's right. I keep thinking that Ariana's 11, but she's not. She's 10.

31:28
Mara Kamat
Yeah, it's okay.

31:29
Carrie Aguilar
What's one key thing that you teach them or would establish them when it comes to money? Like what do you do now with your 7 year old and your 10 year old?

31:40
Grace Arnold
Yeah. So I think in terms of teaching kids about money, it's so funny. I'm just gonna like, I'll be Totally straight with you. I asked my daughter this morning as I was preparing for this I asked my 10 year old, I'm like what's something I've taught you about money?

31:54
Carrie Aguilar
And she just goes like great, like cool.

31:57
Grace Arnold
Thanks Helen. So apparently nothing. I have taught them nothing. And she doesn't listen to me. My 7 year old actually piped up and she said responsibility. And she said, and I said what do we use money for? And she said food and house and things like that. So I think the big thing number one if I will say like one big thing that I've been majorly focused on at this stage of their life teaching them is and I can get into more tacticals of it but is that money as much as it is my life and career is all centered around money. I want to teach them that money is not an identity. It does not make you a better person, it does not make you a worse person. It is a tool.

32:44
Grace Arnold
It is a tool that we use and that we may use responsibility and that's a really kind of key thing that can be hard to teach but I think it's very important. Something I get very concerned about with consumerism and with the constant push through social media and through content on buy this, have this, all of that. That's the part I, I've since a young age I'm like be careful of anything that's trying to trick you into wanting something that you don't want. And so trying to teach them that money is really a tool, it's not your personality, it's not an identity is thing one at this age I would put them in the kid to tween era. It's real from a very early age. I've always tried to teach them to be intentional about their spending.

33:38
Grace Arnold
I think that's and understand what money is. Yeah, we're literally just at the phase where I'm trying to explain to them what is like because it is a crazy concept if you really sit down and think about it but it kind of comes down to not giving into impulses, not feeling like you need to have something. Learning to take. No. So taking them to target and not buying them something just because they ask for it, those little things, that's what I'm trying to instill at them at this point in time.

34:04
Carrie Aguilar
Okay, now pretend that you have a 13 year old or 14 year old. What are you telling them about money?

34:11
Grace Arnold
So I think at that age and I have thought about this, I have mapped out, I've mapped out the roadmap at that age, I think they're ready to understand a little bit more about the concept of trade offs. And the concept of money is energy.

34:27
Carrie Aguilar
Okay.

34:27
Grace Arnold
I actually, I wrote an article about this too of like money really is. It is energy. It represents energy that we have spent, time we have spent, we have received this currency in return that we then use to exchange for other things. And so what I hope to teach them in that kind of tween era is really about, is about the fact that, and you do this through allowances. So you try to get them to understand the concept of earning money. What did it, I made you pick up all the dog poop in the backyard and you got these $10.

34:56
Carrie Aguilar
Yeah.

34:56
Grace Arnold
What does that mean to you now? Are you, does that change how you would use it? So helping them to understand that if they have the opportunity to use money that they can either save it, they can invest it and grow it, or they can use it on the dumb little thing and then they'll never see it again. And so trying to get them to associate that value. My daughter just turned 10 and so I'm at the point where I might open her a little account. Okay, I know that.

35:23
Carrie Aguilar
Are you talking about like a green light card? What does that look like?

35:26
Grace Arnold
Yeah.

35:27
Carrie Aguilar
So speaking from a mom of a.

35:28
Grace Arnold
10 Year old, I, I would say just a, like she's got birthday money that she saved up and opening a little savings account.

35:36
Carrie Aguilar
Okay.

35:37
Grace Arnold
I think things where they can currently.

35:39
Carrie Aguilar
In ours, it's two coffee cans, literally one full of change and one full of cash.

35:44
Grace Arnold
I think something where she can see a statement, she can see, she can start to read, you know, how it works and balances, maybe see some interest payments. I have literally tried to get my girls interested investing. They're just not there yet. I'm like, they're watching Disney. I'm like, oh, you like Disney? Should we buy a Disney stock?

36:03
Carrie Aguilar
What do you like?

36:05
Mara Kamat
It's interesting. So we got the girls the Chase cards when they were young, like the first time we could, because they were skiing and the ski resorts had become cashless, so they needed to have a credit card. And so that kind of started our journey. Think about that. Ari probably got a credit card at 8, like one of the Chase cards that you're putting money on. And then they're going and they're spending money based on buying lunch or snacks or whatever it might be. So I think that was like a great way for us to step into it. Also my dad took them to the bank and opened savings accounts for them. And then he said to them, every time you put a dollar in your savings account, I'll match it.

36:49
Carrie Aguilar
Yeah, wonderful.

36:50
Mara Kamat
And then my husband said, and every time you decide to do that, I'll match it too. So that was like beautiful. Except fast forward a few years. We've had to go to the bank, close that account, open a new one. Cause my dad opened it with them and that was like a special moment, but in reality it just wasn't. And then my daughter's paying himself.

37:13
Carrie Aguilar
I'm just kidding.

37:14
Mara Kamat
And then my daughter just had. My 13 year old just had her bat mitzvah. So she was given a lot of gifts and she saved a lot of it. She donated a small amount too, because that's very important to who we are. And she raised a lot of money for a certain organization. And now at 13, I think she's maybe at the point where we could do some investment discussions and she's seeing interest payments on it and that's very appealing and interesting for her. 10 Year old is still living for the moment, not interested. But the other thing that has recently been happening with our 13 year old that I think is a good learning lesson for them is she also has a card where she could go shopping, but it has a limit on it and I didn't know that.

38:00
Mara Kamat
So for the first time she went shopping with one of her friends and she spent $200 and then the card turned off and it wouldn't let her spend any more money.

38:08
Carrie Aguilar
So.

38:09
Mara Kamat
And she was like, but it's my money, Mom. It's my money that I've saved and I should be able to spend it because it's my money. And I was like, but step back. Should you really be spending more than $200 in one place in one moment? Let's talk about that. And let's talk about like how you are spending your money and what you're spending your money on and what that looks like. And those conversations have been really interesting as part of this learning process. And we've probably had four or five of those in the last six months where we've had to break them down. One of them was $15 at CVS. But the value of those discussions in training their minds to start thinking about how am I spending this money and does this make sense and what does this mean?

38:58
Mara Kamat
And it's not just a plastic card. This has been like a big growth learning year for us. 13.

39:02
Grace Arnold
Yeah.

39:03
Mara Kamat
And I'm glad we've given them these opportunities under Specific restrictions too, to learn.

39:10
Carrie Aguilar
Yeah, I think we're. At least Penelope and James and I are at this place where recently Penelope's wanted these little things. Fucking Squishies.

39:21
Mara Kamat
Meatos.

39:21
Grace Arnold
Meatos.

39:22
Carrie Aguilar
It just goes on dumplings, moonball, whatever it is. And I've gotten into a habit of being like, okay, Penelope, if you want this because let's be real, we buy more than we should. Okay. That's our frame of reference. I'm trying to buy less. And the way that I'm communicating to Penelope is I'm like, hey, she'll ask for it. I'll be like, okay. So does your feelings change if I tell you that you have to go upstairs and get your can and bring the cash and pay for it yourself? And she, it does. She's oh, it's actually not that important to me. And this weekend I wasn't in town, but my husband. She really wanted a Lego and she really enjoys building lego and she's 10. We want to hold on to that 10 year old for some.

40:06
Mara Kamat
She should come shopping at our house.

40:07
Carrie Aguilar
Literally as long as you're Wesley will give them to. If she's into Lego, I'm very happy. So anyways, James is okay, if you want Lego, that's fine. But we're gonna, we're like, we will go together, but you will be buying it. And she was like so excited and she did it herself and it was like a big deal. But yeah, it's interesting to see her wheels turn if it's versus it's our money. Even though it's still her money. Right? It's our money. She's oh yeah, we'll buy the neato. And then it's her money. And she's no, don't really need that neato.

40:35
Grace Arnold
This to me, this is so foundational. And you can see how establishing those habits at an early age will lead them to be more responsible consumers in the future. Because I think these are things that follow you throughout your life. And so I think it's so good that you guys are like that. You're creating the visibility and having those. That was going to be one of the other things. Just talk about it. I think talking about money, whether. And this goes both with the kids and with the women in their circles and parents, their children. I'm very open with my kids about money. I'm open with, yeah, this was very expensive and but it's really important to us. And so X, Y and Z. I think that, I think having those conversations openly is very healthy.

41:23
Grace Arnold
And then I think these habits that you establish and just giving them that frame of reference of oh, this is a tradeoff and I can do this, but it means X that's sophisticated neural pathway development that you just kind of have to do by modeling and by testing it out. I think the third stage of it, so that's kind of the tween stage is all about the trade offs and establishing if this, then that and not just blindly opening your pocketbook to whatever they happen to want. That's not gonna be good for anybody long term. Stage three is once they do start working and having earned income, like for me personally, I'm, I cannot wait until my daugh start working in some capacity. Whether it's a counselor in training or whatever she can do.

42:10
Grace Arnold
I've already told her and it means nothing to her at this point, but the second that happens, she's eligible to open a Roth IRA. Talk about compounding your 401. Like I love that your dad did. Like that is such good advice. I won't go into the math on this, but if the starting out is.

42:30
Carrie Aguilar
Sitting on a gold mine just from this, just from that conversation I can.

42:34
Grace Arnold
Imagine like that, that extra 10.

42:38
Carrie Aguilar
She did nothing else.

42:39
Mara Kamat
I'm just kidding.

42:39
Grace Arnold
15 Years, like it is worth a lot of money. And so teaching your kids, hey, you get a job, you put money into this Roth ira, I will match it for you or I will do whatever. And showing them how that grows, I think will is a huge piece of kind of that teen era as well as that's when you get to start talking to them about taxes too. And like they get their first paycheck and they're super excited and they're all.

43:06
Mara Kamat
Like, where's all the money?

43:08
Grace Arnold
Let's sit down. We're going to have a little lesson on this. I'm so excited for that.

43:13
Carrie Aguilar
You know, we'll talk about tax shelters at that moment. I'm just kidding.

43:16
Grace Arnold
I have so many tips.

43:18
Mara Kamat
So in like closing out our session, if you had one piece of advice to give to women that you want to make sure they really heard today or they're walking away with, what is it?

43:33
Grace Arnold
I think it's, I think that the big piece of advice I would give for women is to be engaged in your finances, be curious. I suppose that would be my number one piece of advice. That's what I tell my girls all the time. I think knowledge harkening back to the studying conversation and knowledge is not a burden. It's Our right. Never forget that. Never minimize it. The reason I called my substack Girl math is because it just like the girl math and the I'm just a girl and all the memes that kind of minimize who we are as women, how much we have to offer, how much we can do, how incredible we are, they really piss me off. And whether it's a little self deprecating humor, acting like we can't get it, that's the one piece of advice I would leave you with.

44:30
Grace Arnold
Not only can we get it, we are better at it. And there is data to back that up as well. So get engaged, get involved, make people uncomfortable with your questions. And this is yours. This is yours for the taking.

44:43
Carrie Aguilar
That's awesome. This has been amazing. We end this conversation with two questions. The first is if you could go back and tell your younger self a piece of advice, what would it be?

44:57
Grace Arnold
Buy Nvidia in 20? No, it would be don't worry so much. And I would promptly not listen to that advice and go on worrying about everything. But yeah, I think just, you've got this. Don't worry. Keep doing what you're doing. I'm a strong believer that all the challenges that we do face and the road bumps and the obstacles along the way, they just get us to where we are now. And as women, I think that we can give ourselves a little bit more grace in those moments.

45:31
Mara Kamat
That's beautiful. And finally, what's bringing you joy right now?

45:36
Grace Arnold
Oh, what's bringing me joy right now? I did not prepare for that answer. I think this conversation, honestly, I think that. Thank you so much for creating this space to have this conversation. And it's giving me so much joy to be able to hopefully spark a little bit of curiosity and question in somebody's mind today.

46:02
Carrie Aguilar
That's wonderful. Thank you so much for joining us today and for the incredible work you're doing to help further educate and empower women in their financial literacy.

46:13
Mara Kamat
Thank you. Thanks for being here, Grace.

46:16
Grace Arnold
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. This was awesome.

46:18
Carrie Aguilar
Thank you.

46:20
Mara Kamat
Thank you for tuning in to In Her Land. If you love this conversation, please share it with a friend. Leave us a review and keep following along@inherland.com where we highlight more incredible women making an impact. Until next time.

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