Redefining Partnership: Lessons from Aaron Kamat & James Aguilar

Redefining Partnership: Lessons from Aaron Kamat & James Aguilar

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00:41
Mara Kamat
Welcome to In Her Land. I'm Mara Kamat.

01:04
Carrie Aguilar
And I'm Carrie Aguilar. Here we celebrate authenticity, connection, and the evolving chapters of women's lives with heart, humor and honesty. Today's episode is extra special because our guests are two people who know us best, our husbands, James Aguilar and Aaron Kamat.

01:22
Mara Kamat
In introducing our husbands, we thought we'd give you a little bit of background on who they are and what they do. Aaron is a CEO, finance professional, and a board member at an all girls school. He's passionate about golfing. You can often find him in the winter, skiing and traveling. Our favorite thing to do, and mostly his favorite thing to do, is sitting outside in our backyard watching sports in front of our fireplace with a Moscow mule in hand or a cup of iced coffee. It could go either way. For those that know Aaron moving to.

01:55
Carrie Aguilar
My husband, this is James. You guys can't see me, but I'm nudging my husband here. James is a passionate math teacher and educator, helping young women find their voice and confidence at an all girls school. He loves the outdoors and spending his summers working at a camp on the east coast. Outside of work, James enjoys reading, practicing Brazilian jiu jitsu, and taking on new challenges just for fun. We're excited to have you here.

02:22
James Aguilar
I'm really happy to be here.

02:23
Mara Kamat
Today we're diving into what it means to raise daughters, be married to straight, strong women, and actively lift women up in the workplace. I think it's wonderful to get a male perspective and certainly two males who we love and adore and we know will tell us the truth and bring the truth to our listeners.

02:43
Carrie Aguilar
Aaron, James, thank you for being here. Let's start simply. How has raising daughters changed the way you see the world? And I love the way that I say that this is simple. I suppose this might be the hardest question for me.

02:57
James Aguilar
Raising a daughter has really softened me to the world. And it's a double edged sword because there's a huge part of me that wants to protect her and that makes me want to protect all the students at school. And you really have to, like, let them go and let them struggle and let it be hard for them. And for me, that's a real challenge.

03:24
Carrie Aguilar
What about you, Aaron?

03:25
Aaron Kamat
There's not a playbook that someone gives you on how to raise children. We were young parents and someone always said to us, how did you do it? What did you do? And when you're in it, you just figure it out. And then on the same side of raising girls, I was playing sports and doing things as a kid and always thought I'd be that baseball coach or that hockey coach. But with our daughters, we wanted to just raise them to be great human beings who worked hard, who had a voice. And I think that's how I looked at it.

03:49
Carrie Aguilar
I think that's wonderful and so important.

03:52
Mara Kamat
Can you share a moment when one of your daughters surprised you, maybe challenged your thinking or showed you a new kind of courage?

03:58
Aaron Kamat
I think there's two things that really come to my mind when I think of that. I really enjoy skiing with our daughters, and I think all the time they want to push boundaries, to be the best that they can be. And sometimes they get a coach that looks at them Ari as being petite and short or. Or both of them being two girls. And people make judgments on them, but they stand up for themselves, they stick up for themselves, and they face those challenges where they network, they get it done. Also, Olivia came home from school a couple weeks ago and she said to us, hey, there was a STEM program that we really wanted to do, but they didn't open up for the sixth graders.

04:41
Aaron Kamat
And she's like, but I knew the senior who was leading it, and I was gonna go to school and I was gonna do it and I was gonna talk to them and I was gonna get accepted into this thing. That's really cool. I was so proud of her when she came because she never talked to Mara and I.

04:55
James Aguilar
She took care of it.

04:56
Carrie Aguilar
She did.

04:56
James Aguilar
That's awesome.

04:57
Aaron Kamat
We would have been that helicopter parent at that moment, calling the school, like, get my kid into it. And our kid told us after the fact that what she did, that's awesome. And I was proud of her voice.

05:07
Carrie Aguilar
That's incredible.

05:10
James Aguilar
For me, it goes back to what I was mentioning before about wanting to protect my parents. Spent a lot of time trying to cushion my disappointments. And I tend to want to Protect my students or Penelope before they get disappointed. So last summer at the swim test at camp, Penelope hadn't practiced swimming in months. And she's like, dad, I'm going to pass the swim test. And I was like, it's okay if you don't. Just get out there and do your best. And then she amazed me, and she passed the swim test. And I think she passed the swim test out of spite, to show me that I was wrong. But it really changed my perspective in terms of I need to let her try.

05:54
Carrie Aguilar
Yeah.

05:54
James Aguilar
And it changed my entire year of teaching, seeing her pass that swim test and not needing her dad to say, it's okay if you don't make it.

06:03
Carrie Aguilar
So do you think the value is you don't have to say, it's okay you don't make it, or is it? What surprised you was that she took that and she was like, f you, dad.

06:13
James Aguilar
No, no. I really think it was like, I was taken away by even talking about the fact that she might not make it. Because every time we do something, we might not make it. We don't have to draw attention to that. I think it's our job to help pick up the pieces when things fall apart. But it's not our job to preload for failure.

06:36
Aaron Kamat
I guess we almost hold them back in some way.

06:39
James Aguilar
And I see it at school as well. We were talking earlier about how raising a daughter changed my perspective. It's really influenced the way I teach because I want to, like, don't worry about the test. Just do your best. And I think that there's value in this honesty. And be like, this is your score. Next time, try to beat it. Right. Okay, this was your score in the fall. Okay, now let's see if we can meet it or beat it in the spring. So there's just some honesty and some not preparing for failure that came out of that.

07:09
Mara Kamat
We feel super passionate about that. Leading with honesty and making sure our girls are balanced about where they're really at. Are you gonna make it to the next level of math where you can skip? Or maybe you don't have those fundamental skills yet and having the really honest conversation of if you wanna, then you gotta make sure you build those fundamental skills. And let's talk about how you do that. And so we often look at our parenting with our daughters as leading with that honesty. And I think that it's important because life is not sugarcoated. And if they don't face it now, they'll have to face it at some point.

07:46
James Aguilar
Yeah. And during the three years I've known you all and the three years that I've been teaching at this school, I've really changed my perspective about testing and honesty. And I agree. The girls need to know this is what's going on. It's just a snapshot. You're not this score, you're not this day, but this is what you did on this day.

08:05
Aaron Kamat
Right.

08:06
Mara Kamat
What is one piece of wisdom that you've imparted on your daughter that you think is important for how they lead or live a value oriented life?

08:16
James Aguilar
I think the most recent one that comes to mind is telling Penelope that not everyone has to like her. And I think it was a point of contention when it came up in the house. I don't remember the context, but I landed and I felt really good about landing with her. We need you to be kind to all your classmates. We need you to be a good human being. But you don't have to do stuff so people like you. Not everyone has to like you. And I think sometimes we talk to kids about, you don't have to like everyone, but you have to get along. And we don't always add that. Not everyone has to like you either.

08:57
Aaron Kamat
That's a great lesson to learn. Great lesson to teach and think it's harder to learn it.

09:02
James Aguilar
How do we get students to practice practicing when they don't need to practice so that when they need to practice, they know how to practice?

09:11
Aaron Kamat
Yeah. I mean, I think it was interesting because one of my children had a reading tutor and I think at the end of the day, the reading tutor done wonders for her for the last two years. And she said, I think I'm almost done with you. I think you're at the right level. And our child took that as, hey, I'm excelling. They have an A in English where Mara and I sometimes look at as parents of like, hey, that was a great almost therapist. That was almost a great tool in your toolbox to bring yourself up.

09:42
Mara Kamat
So, James.

09:43
James Aguilar
Yes, ma' am.

09:43
Mara Kamat
You're married to a strong and ambitious woman.

09:46
James Aguilar
That's right.

09:47
Mara Kamat
How do you view partnership at work and at home?

09:54
James Aguilar
I think that something that has occurred to me lately and both of us sometimes we play the game where we say, I'm the only one who does everything. I'm the only one who does this, I'm the only one who does that.

10:08
Mara Kamat
We never play that game.

10:09
James Aguilar
Well, congratulations. I've played the game a lot. I think Carrie's probably played the game. But I think what's really Great is lately it occurred to me that I am in a partnership and it really does come out in the wash. And when I was thinking about coming on the podcast, I'm not trying to be gender colorblind, but I don't think about traditional gender roles a lot. They haven't played a big part in my life. I work at an all girls school, all my colleagues are women. I don't really think about gender roles. I think that we take turns and we work together and it all works out. Nobody's doing it all by themselves.

10:51
Mara Kamat
We have an interesting perspective. And I want to hear what you think too, Aaron. I think that throughout the course of our lives and careers, we've had different moments where one's been leading and the other's been supporting. And it's not always like that, but I think the willingness to slide into that role, to be the lead role, to be the support role, has been critical to our success in that you don't know where one parent stops and ends in the traditional gender roles. For us, Aaron could be cooking dinner, Mara could be doing the laundry. Somebody could be picking up a kid, and then the next day it looks completely different. And I've appreciated having that support and that flex throughout our lives.

11:34
Aaron Kamat
I think for me, it goes back to no one gives you that playbook for parenting, right? Mara and I are high school sweethearts. We've grown up together, right? So no one gives you that playbook at 15 or 16 on who's gonna have the bigger job or the career or go to graduate school or where are you gonna live? You don't have that playbook. And I think what resonates to me in that question and that conversation is we would interview nannies or au pairs, and they would speak to Mara, the nanny or the au pair would speak to Mara and she would look at them and say, we're a partnership from the beginning. And we would both say that. You're not texting Mara the question about our daughters. You're group texting Aaron and Mara.

12:19
Aaron Kamat
And if you need something, you're going to call Aaron because he will always answer his phone because he knows it has to do with the girls. We had to change that world. We had Au Paris for five years who lived with us, and they know if you need something and you're in a pinch, call Aaron. But it was because were partners.

12:36
Carrie Aguilar
From the beginning and your lives look different. You have more flexibility. That doesn't mean that your job is less or more important. It just means that, yeah, I'm glad.

12:47
James Aguilar
You all brought that up because I guess we've had the same thing where.

12:50
Carrie Aguilar
Yeah, and it's different.

12:51
James Aguilar
You're the person the school calls or I'm the person the school calls. It's the flexibility. And our careers have changed a lot in the time we've been together.

12:58
Carrie Aguilar
And I think when you guys were talking about leading, I remember there were periods where I would do a lot of travel. And I think that's where it comes very obvious or where it is so important to have a partner that's like equal partnership or like a really good plan or a really good flex. Because there were times when I would be gone and James would be just there with our two year old getting hand, foot, mouth disease.

13:24
Mara Kamat
Aaron had his fair share of those. And the funniest thing is now we're in a different position where I have more flexibility and Aaron has less flexibility. But for the last 15 years, it didn't look like that he was a more flexible one and I was the one that was traveling all the time and didn't have the flexibility. But this past Friday, I had a board meeting in Columbus. And so I looked at him, I was like, I gotta leave super early and then I'll be back in the evening. And of course, that's the day that our daughter Ari leaves her backpack at home. So now I'm gone and he's driving 30 minutes to school, drops her off, drives 30 minutes back home, drives 30 minutes back to school and then to the office.

14:05
Mara Kamat
So it's also that balance of trying to show up and always be there for your kid. And we debated if it was the right thing to take the backpack or not because Mommy felt like it wasn't. That's a lesson that has to be learned the hard way. Daddy was the hero and saved her. But I think having that balance and support has been critical to our success.

14:25
Carrie Aguilar
I think it's interesting because what I have found in some of my friendships, in some of the partnerships, is either the man or the woman, or one partner or the other have more of a say in the kids, how they're being raised, in what way they're being raised. I think one of the reasons why Mara and I have gotten so close so quickly is because it feels like you both have a similar feeling in terms of your partnership. Like you trust Aaron to parent his children and it doesn't matter. You just said it. You wouldn't have brought the backpack to Ari. She would have learned a different lesson that day. But Aaron did. And that's Totally fine. Because that's what happened that day, and it's totally okay.

15:11
Carrie Aguilar
And I think it's interesting because I do think that there are still a lot of partnerships where the woman typically dictates, especially in parents of girls typically dictates the lessons learned, what's important. And I don't know what I'm doing any more than James knows what he's doing. Right. I think it's just a lot of stress put on women in general.

15:34
Aaron Kamat
Yeah. I mean, in the financial service world, they don't teach people when you're in high school or middle school that there's mortgages and taxes.

15:42
Carrie Aguilar
Right.

15:43
Aaron Kamat
They don't teach you about those kind of things. It's the same thing in the parenting world in some ways, like there's not that playbook or we referenced or there's not that thing. We both grew up in two houses where both of our parents worked.

15:55
Carrie Aguilar
Right.

15:55
Aaron Kamat
And I also think that in my house, looking back, my father was maybe the stronger voice in a nurturing way, too, in a parenting way. He wasn't always there physically, but I think his presence was maybe more known in the school world as well. So that's interesting. I think it kind of has to do with the background of where you come from as well.

16:17
Mara Kamat
I think in bringing that to life, what you mean too, is your dad cooked dinner, your dad did laundry, your dad always grocery shopped, your dad paid the bills. There were definitely shared partnership between your parents where both of them did everything.

16:33
Carrie Aguilar
What about you, James?

16:34
James Aguilar
Both my parents worked. I can't really remember how they shared responsibilities, but I guess were always outside doing yard like it was a family affair. Yard work, everyone. Can I go play with my friends? No, we're doing yard work. Clean the house, everyone. So I guess we all shared.

16:53
Carrie Aguilar
Aaron, you were talking about the school and being active in school. I know that you were a room parent for your daughters. Can you tell us a little bit about the experience about being a room parent and how it felt maybe being in kind of a gender reverse sort of role, given that sometimes moms are typical room parents.

17:16
Aaron Kamat
One of our daughters said to mom and dad at the time, will one of you be the room parent? I don't think it was this big, well thought out reason, but Mara was on the road traveling, and she was busy. It was coming out of COVID and I said, I got this one. And I said, I'm gonna do this. And I think people are too busy to do things. Right. But you have to prioritize.

17:37
Carrie Aguilar
Right.

17:37
Aaron Kamat
So Everybody has an excuse of why they can't, but when we got into it, the gender role really played a factor. So I actually did it with another male. Oh, that's awesome. Another father.

17:48
Mara Kamat
He went out and recruited him. Recruited him, which I think was awesome.

17:52
Aaron Kamat
And I said, we're gonna be room parents together and we're going to change this role because both of us owned our own business and both of us were very busy people. But we said, we're going to prioritize this. This is meaningful. And I remember in third grade, the teachers coming up to us and saying, you guys are the best room parents out there. And they weren't just saying that for us. They were saying that because it wasn't checking the box. We cared so passionately to be different. We threw killer parties and got in trouble with the school and we could get. That's for another day. But at the end of the day, I really wanted to say is, just because your mom can't do it right now, or just because another parent couldn't do it, there's nothing wrong with dad doing it.

18:32
Carrie Aguilar
Right. Very successful partnerships. I mean, historically speaking, there's a reason why there have been stay at home moms or stay at home dads. Right? It works both ways. It is really hard to run a household plus make sure the children are all safe, plus have a full time job. So therefore, if someone has a full time job, if you have the partner helping out at home, I think that's incredible. I also think there's something to be said for outsourcing help in the areas that you just either don't excel in or it doesn't.

19:05
Aaron Kamat
Swear you can, but I think it's different. Also, I look at myself as a better spouse and a better parent by knowing my constraints, knowing where we excel and where we have issues. Right. Or where we're off on. We're home four nights a week for dinner, usually to be a family.

19:22
Carrie Aguilar
Right.

19:23
Aaron Kamat
But we have the nanny or the au pair because we're busy and we know what we need.

19:28
James Aguilar
I want to know how we ended up with two families with partnerships. What's the secret sauce? How is it that you and I have a say in what happens to our daughter? And you trust me with her and I trust you with her, but other families don't have that. How did we luck into that is what I'm curious about.

19:47
Mara Kamat
I have answer.

19:48
Carrie Aguilar
What is it?

19:49
Mara Kamat
Maybe not for you two, but I can tell you what our sauce was.

19:52
James Aguilar
I'd love to hear it.

19:53
Mara Kamat
We grew into it. What I mean by that is we've spent so many years together learning what each other's strengths are, likes and dislikes.

20:02
Carrie Aguilar
That they've been together since they were, like, 15.

20:05
Mara Kamat
Yeah. That we grew into it. But I think that some people in marriage can also grow out of it. Meaning that each person is growing and perhaps they don't grow together in it. And I think that we've been conscious to grow together in it, in this partnership. And in doing that sometimes means we go to parent coaching so we can better parents and make sure we're on the same page. Cause like Aaron said before, you don't go to school how to learn to be an effective parent. And there's not a rule book that teaches you how to do it.

20:34
Mara Kamat
And so being conscious about where we need that knowledge and support and help, I think has been critical to building our partnership and making sure we're on the same page and working out those conflict points, too, whether it be in our marriage or how we parent. And having therapists that help do that and other professionals that help do that has been helpful for us.

20:59
Carrie Aguilar
Yeah. I also think it's a decision. Right. I know that James is not gonna parent Penelope the way that I would parent Penelope.

21:06
James Aguilar
Not even close.

21:07
Carrie Aguilar
Not even close. He doesn't really think that she needs to brush her hair that often, whereas I just think every day needs to happen because she gets mats in the back of her head. But every day he says, penelope, you need to brush your hair. I know he doesn't believe it, but he's still doing it because he knows that it's a sticking point for me. You gotta figure out what's really that important. And for me, I guess it's just because when I was a kid, I had very curly hair and I would get mats in the back of my head, and it was miserable. And so that's really important to me that my daughter doesn't have that. But other things, like James and Penelope do jujitsu. It's not necessarily something that I would have said absolutely.

21:49
Carrie Aguilar
But it's something that they love to do and love to do together. And I take her all the time. I take her three times a week if she wants me to.

21:57
James Aguilar
I also think we lucked into it with the changes in career because our roles have been flexible with how we're earning our money and supporting our family. We've had to learn to be flexible. That's true.

22:12
Aaron Kamat
It's also about knowing each other. Right. The other day, we had a freak gymnastics accident, and Ari was taken to the er.

22:20
James Aguilar
Oh, my goodness.

22:21
Aaron Kamat
After, you know, scorpion on the vault, Mara went to pick her up. Because I was actually smoking some chicken or some mint or something. I was like, really? I love my smoker. And Mara normally wouldn't have gone in our relationship. It would have been like, Aaron got in the car, sped there, got Ari, assessed the condition. And you know your spouse, right? You know where you thrive, right? But instead I was like, mara, I don't want to burn down the house. Why don't you hop in? And she gets there and she says, we're going to the hospital. We're going to the er. The coach said, you need to go. She's like, you need to come immediately. So it was one of those situations.

22:55
Aaron Kamat
We got there, she was comfortable, we assessed it, and I looked at Mara and I said, you need to go home. Because we know our strengths, right? We know each other so well, where we thrive and where we thrive as parents, right? And her being there in that moment for our kid was already nervous. It was just gonna exponentially lift that up. She looked at me and she actually was like, you're right.

23:21
Mara Kamat
Because I was, like, freaking out inside, super anxious, and no good was coming of that. And it was very clear our daughter was not in total distress and she was probably gonna be fine. And you were able to stay calm, cool, and collected and.

23:38
Aaron Kamat
But that's true.

23:39
Mara Kamat
You were the better parent to manage the situation in that moment.

23:41
Aaron Kamat
But it's not about better. It's 20 years of experience of knowing what co parenting looks like. That's really what I would say.

24:27
Mara Kamat
On in her land, We've talked about areas that women struggle with, a few being imposter syndrome and confidence. James, is there anything that you do or encourage in your math classes to help young women so that in 20 years, we aren't seeing such a gap in confidence among women in the workplace?

24:45
James Aguilar
I really enjoy this question, and in the time I've spent working at this all girls school. I think one of the primary lessons I've learned from the girls and now I try to share with the girls is to be authentic. Students can always tell if you're doing the work or if you're not doing the work. Students can tell if you're being yourself or if you're feeding them a line.

25:07
Carrie Aguilar
Being an authentic teacher helps them.

25:10
Aaron Kamat
Yeah.

25:10
James Aguilar
If I bring my real self into the classroom, I make it okay for them to bring their real self into the classroom. Kids can tell when it's nonsense. Right. So that's one of the things, is the authenticity. And working with these girls has really brought that out in me. And the other is to really build on their strengths. And it's a shift in mindset that I'm trying to make for myself. I've spent however many years I've been alive working on my deficits. What's missing, what's wrong, what can we improve? And that's the energy I've brought to my life and that's the energy I've brought to the classroom. And lately I'm recognizing that I need to find all the things that I'm doing well and build on them.

25:54
James Aguilar
And I need to find all the things that the students are doing well and build on them. And then finally I just spend so much time cheerleading for the girls. It's all, you can do it. And once again, it's an authenticity, you can do it. Because I believe all the girls can figure it out.

26:09
Mara Kamat
I think that's a generational mindset, to be totally honest with you. We grew up that way as well. Of what can we do better? Where are opportunities? And now I think our girls are growing up in a really different world that we talk about growth mindset, we talk about strengths based assessments and where are you really strong and how do we leverage those strengths to be even better? And I think that leading with that positive mindset in mind is a much healthier way to live. Also, statistics show that if you lead with a more positive mindset, or like as Ari likes to call it, a championship mindset, you're more likely to have positive results and you're more likely to have not just positive results, but better results than you might have if you were going in with a deficit mindset, we'll call it. Absolutely.

27:00
Mara Kamat
It's not you. I think were all kind of raised in that generation. And that's how I live. And that's something that I'm actually working on personally and that I take to heart with the girls in trying to push forward a growth mindset and a championship mindset and using more positive language and even positive imagery. Throughout our house, in their bedrooms, there's these positive, inspiring messages on their walls. And at this point, they probably think they're silly or they don't even see them anymore, but that was there with an intended purpose to help raise them up and lift them up. So I think that's amazing to share.

27:34
Aaron Kamat
I think it's great, actually, and I feel strongly about it. I think to add to that a little bit, James, it's also okay to understand you're not good at something. It's also good to understand where we need to work a little bit harder. You mentioned it about being honest with them, giving honest feedback, giving real feedback. Hey, you got a 70%. Giving those numbers to show growth and show success.

27:59
James Aguilar
And I think really focusing on that's great. If you got 70%, that means you've already got 70%. You just need to work on that other 30%. I think instead of saying, look at this 30% you missed. It's. Look how high you scored. We just need to build on that.

28:15
Carrie Aguilar
Well, and if you think about it from a, like, fast forward 20 years, 30 years, these girls are going to remember and understand because they're working on their strengths, right? Not that they shouldn't at all work on their weaknesses, but one of the pieces that women run into is that we feel like we need to do everything for us to be a good leader, we need to actually run the whole business. We need to know how every little cranny of the business works. And we need to have more than a general understanding. We need to ace that test.

28:46
Carrie Aguilar
And what's great about this is what we need to do is really understand where do we really excel and then how can we bring in help to kind of aid the other areas, which is a big level up when it comes to women in terms of delegating leadership, building teams, all that.

29:05
James Aguilar
I think that's a good point. And back to what you were saying, Aaron, about it's okay to recognize when you're bad at stuff. I don't know the right language for this because it's dot positive, but you have to be good at being bad at things. And that is the only way you can get good at things. You have to become good at being bad. That's the only way to improve.

29:27
Carrie Aguilar
Because then you need to understand, I'm not good at this. And if I want to get better at it, this is what it takes.

29:32
Aaron Kamat
Right?

29:33
Mara Kamat
And to build that Resilience, right? That's essentially what you're doing, is you're building the ability to be like, all right, that didn't go so well. Let's move on to the next thing and try again without allowing it or giving it power to be debilitating or devastating or feel like such a hard failure that you can't move on from there. And that's a mindset.

29:50
James Aguilar
And if the strength is, that didn't go so well. But I showed up. That didn't go so well. At least I'm here. But you can always find something to build on.

29:58
Mara Kamat
There's also powerful lessons in learning about the things that you don't like to do or you're not good at and allowing those experiences to dictate decisions that you make in life. Like, hey, I'm not good at that, and I don't really like it, so I'm not gonna do it. But at least I tried it to learn that. So one of the questions I have that I think is kind of fun, if you are talking to all the girl dads out there, what are some things you've done to connect with your girls? For the girl dads that might be looking at finding a stronger connection to.

30:33
Aaron Kamat
Their daughters, the switch flipped for me during COVID We loved to travel. We loved to do things with our girls, and now were stuck. So I said, tamara, In July of 20, I said, we're gonna start skiing as a family. And for me, it was more of a connection with the girls. And I tell people this every day. I drive the girls to school every day, 17 minutes to school. But they're tired, they're groggy. When we're on the ski slope together, we're on that lift together, they talk to me more. I have undivided attention. And I think it's really find that activity and find that connection between you and your daughters. It doesn't matter what it is. It could be camp, it could be whatever. But for us, were able to connect on the ski slope. That's really important, special.

31:19
James Aguilar
Yeah. For me, I'm kind of tactical about it, and I try to encourage her to do the things I like. That has to be part of it. The stakes were high when I took her to Jiu Jitsu because I was afraid she wouldn't like it. But then I remembered, it doesn't matter if she likes it or not, because as long as I'm doing it, she's gonna be exposed to it. And then sometimes it's letting her choose and Doing what she wants to do. So I think there has to be a balance of, we're gonna listen to my music right now, and we're gonna drive and do this, and then let's do your thing. Where do you wanna go?

31:55
Aaron Kamat
But, James, it's funny you say that. Whether I liked it or not, I went to many Taylor Swift concerts, you know, and. Because that was the connection. He loved it, but that was the connection.

32:05
James Aguilar
Sure.

32:05
Aaron Kamat
I didn't know if were going to like skiing, but were going to give it a try. Right.

32:10
James Aguilar
So that's a huge part of it. Right. Is try something.

32:13
Aaron Kamat
Right.

32:13
Mara Kamat
One other thing I think that you haven't mentioned, but our kids have really grabbed onto, which is becoming a pain in your butt, is their love for the Cavs games.

32:21
Aaron Kamat
Yeah.

32:22
Mara Kamat
So Aaron has a passion for sports and definitely for Cleveland sports, and he has fostered that in our children. I'm not going to say I'm an avid sports fan at all, but I do like to go to, like, the playoff games, and I do like the moments with our family. But he has made super fans out of our daughters, and so it is always a challenge for him when he only has two tickets to a game to choose who's going to get to go.

32:47
Carrie Aguilar
James.

32:49
James Aguilar
Yeah. It's so easy, James. Forget the girls.

32:51
Aaron Kamat
I mean, it was totally fun. It's also interesting, James, because speaking of jiu jitsu, which was a passion of yours, Olivia started to really participate in golf and take lessons. I don't know if it's because she likes it, but I think she looks at it as, like, hanging out with dad.

33:06
James Aguilar
That's terrific.

33:07
Aaron Kamat
Right. I'm still conflicted on whether she likes it or not, but I know that she's doing it because her dad likes it.

33:13
Mara Kamat
And I also feel like it's a great skill for life.

33:16
Aaron Kamat
Absolutely.

33:16
Mara Kamat
Yeah.

33:17
James Aguilar
Because, like, the way you get closer to someone is by sharing experiences.

33:20
Aaron Kamat
Exactly.

33:21
James Aguilar
Whatever the reason.

33:22
Carrie Aguilar
Shifting gears a little bit. Aaron, if you could give one message to all the future male leaders who might supervise, mentor, or work with our daughters, what would it be?

33:33
Aaron Kamat
It would be to get rid of the word honey. To get rid of how men sometimes address women in the workforce. Speaking of gender roles and other things, I gave the example of the ski instructors talking down to my daughters, thinking, oh, you're not gonna be in this group of boys. They're better skiers. Where in the reality, they're not. Right. But it's the assumption of it. Right. I played golf with my business partner nine holes a couple Weeks ago.

33:59
Mara Kamat
And who's a female.

34:00
Aaron Kamat
Who's a female, Right. And she's a very good female golfer.

34:03
Carrie Aguilar
Right.

34:03
Aaron Kamat
And I think we had a 2:10, nine hole tee time and the person at 2:20 came up to the starter and he's like, there's just two of us. We're gonna fly. We're gonna go in front of those two. So that guy basically looked at my business partner who's a woman, and just assumed that she wasn't good and just looked at me and said, we're gonna go fly. And. And we got behind them and they were the two worst golfers we've ever seen. So on the third hole, we took our cart and we said, we're gonna go in front of you. I think it's also how leaders of companies say to the woman on the leadership commit team, will you go get me a cup of coffee?

34:40
Carrie Aguilar
Right.

34:40
Aaron Kamat
They say to that leader, which Mara's faced, will you go make this dinner reservation for me? You wouldn't ask your male counterpart to do it. So I would say to that leader, make sure you're asking my daughter or the female on your team the same thing you would ask your male counterpart. Don't look at them just because of those other reasons.

35:00
Carrie Aguilar
Right.

35:01
Mara Kamat
I was on a leadership team where I thought this was really nice. The CEO had everybody who was on the leadership team rotate who was taking notes for each week during the leadership team meeting to make sure that gender role wasn't there and that the role was equally shared among everybody on the team. And I appreciated that approach.

35:22
Carrie Aguilar
I really like that. And it doesn't make it a thing by making it a thing, if that makes sense.

35:26
James Aguilar
Right.

35:27
Mara Kamat
What's one of the hardest but most important lessons you've learned from a woman in your life?

35:33
James Aguilar
I think I've been really lucky to have a lot of strong female mentors in my life. And one of them was really recently I learned about this asset based thinking and building on strengths. And that was from a differentiation coach who came to help me differentiate my math classes. It was mind blowing. I had never heard of asset based thinking until weeks ago. And the other one, I've learned this since I started working at the school is it's okay to ask for help. And I don't know how that lesson came to me, but I think it's because I work with a very supportive group who happen to all be women. Days ago I realized that I don't have to do everything by myself at school. And it was mind blowing.

36:24
James Aguilar
And I Think it's just the structure of the school and the collaborative environment that's been created.

36:29
Mara Kamat
Has that changed anything in the way that you lead parent or show up for others dreams?

36:34
James Aguilar
I think it goes back to what Aaron was saying and Kerry was saying too, with being able to focus on your strengths, but get the help you need, fill in the gaps. You don't have to do it all yourself.

36:46
Mara Kamat
Gentlemen, what's one time a woman, your daughter, your wife, a student completely roasted you. And you Knew she was 100% right.

36:58
James Aguilar
Some motivated fifth grade students were acting up in class and they really hurt my feelings.

37:06
Mara Kamat
Aw.

37:07
James Aguilar
And this was probably a Thursday, and we didn't have math class Friday. And I complained to Carrie about it on Friday night and I complained to Carrie about it on Saturday night. And I said, man, I'm gonna teach those.

37:19
Carrie Aguilar
She's like a sad puppy all weekend.

37:21
James Aguilar
I'm gonna teach those girls a lesson. I can't believe they're so disrespectful in my class. And I was complaining about it on Sunday night and we didn't have school on Monday. And on Monday night, I'm like, man, those girls are gonna get it in math class today. I'm still so upset. This is four days later. And Carrie looks over at me and she goes, James, they're 11.

37:45
Aaron Kamat
It's so funny how kids are today because went to the 6th through 12th grade choir concert the other day.

37:52
James Aguilar
I heard it was great.

37:53
Aaron Kamat
Okay. It was fantastic. And on this podcast, I'm not gonna say how he really did, how I really felt about it, but it was a wonderful evening. And my youngest daughter loves having me home for bedtime. And we love being there. But I think one of our opportunities for her is to let other people get her to bed. Right? So the nanny was there and she had her safe person there. She had picked up from gymnastics. So she kept on calling me and I said, this was so good. I texted her back, I said, ari, we're in the choir concert. It's taking longer. And she kept on calling. And I'm like, what the heck is going on here? I kept on hitting ignore it. Cause I just wanted her to feel honestly comfortable going to bed.

38:36
Aaron Kamat
It was nine o' clock, she needed to go to sleep. She's in fourth grade, she needs to go to bed. Just like a fourth grader. And she goes, dad, I tracked you. You're not at the choir concert. You're at Mitchell's Ice Cream at Van Aken.

38:49
James Aguilar
Were you?

38:50
Carrie Aguilar
Yes.

38:51
Mara Kamat
It was bananas. I was like, I don't even know how to track you like that. How is she tracking you right now?

38:58
Carrie Aguilar
That's a good race.

38:59
Aaron Kamat
I think Mara and are, like, one of the only modern couples today that doesn't have, like, a tracker on each other. We know where each other are, but we've never had that.

39:08
Mara Kamat
And let's be clear. The reason the tracker is actually on our children is because they have Apple watches when they ski. And from a safety standpoint, we always want to be able to track them when they're skiing. So that's why they have the trackers on them.

39:21
Aaron Kamat
But they took our phone one day, both of our phones, and they did something with it that again, we have no idea how to do. And they put the share location on, and we honestly don't know how to shut it off. She goes, dad, you're at Mitchell's ice cream. So I finally answered when she texted me this, and I said, ari, you're right. I'm not gonna lie to you. And I said, but the line is out the door, around the block, and we're not getting it. We're on our way home.

39:47
Mara Kamat
All true. That was true.

39:49
Aaron Kamat
It was the craziest thing. That's his story.

39:51
Carrie Aguilar
That's a wonderful story. Before we close, we want to ask you guys something we love asking all of our guests. If you could go back in time to give your younger self one piece of advice, something you know now but wish you had known back then, what.

40:09
Aaron Kamat
Would it be, Carrie? I would say slow down. I would say one of the biggest things I would say is step back and slow down. I think we go through school, we graduate high school, we go to college, we get our first job, and then we start trying to get to the next level in the next job. And I think there's a beauty beyond telling our daughters or each other, go do that. Study abroad. Go live abroad for a couple years. Take two years off. You have the rest of your life to pound the pavement. You have the rest of your life to try to knock on the CEO's door.

40:44
Carrie Aguilar
Right?

40:45
Aaron Kamat
I think Covid kind of taught that to me. Mara would say midlife crisis taught that to me. But it really would be to my daughters, say yes and go experience more. And I think because once you get to the top or feel like you're getting to the top, it's lonely at the top too, right? It's lonely being in those positions, surround yourself by more people. Sometimes I really go back to slow down. Right. Experience more. Do what you wanted to do at those Ages and don't think you need that next internship or that next job.

41:19
Mara Kamat
I think that's easy for us to say, but if we pull up a mirror and look reflectively at it. We were raised in households where we had two working parents who had a very linear definition of success, and that was go to college, maybe go to graduate school, get a great job, make money, have a family, be stable, and work really, really hard. That was ingrained in both of us from a very young age. And so when we define success very linearly. How much money do you have? How stable are you? And today, I think our definition of success looks much broader and much different. You know, how happy are you? How fulfilled are you? Are you doing the things that honor your values?

42:10
Mara Kamat
And it's bigger and wider than how were raised in the original definition of success that we based our lives on when we first started.

42:19
Aaron Kamat
Yeah, we both have examples in both of our lives. Looking back, I remember telling my parents that I wasn't going to be an engineer or a doctor.

42:26
Mara Kamat
And he's half Indian, so I think that's a really important thing to say, that was just appalling culturally.

42:33
Aaron Kamat
And I think for you, too, Mara. I think going back and saying, I'm gonna quit my job and do something different. Right. And your mom's reaction was very different. I'm gonna try to lead by example, and it's easier said than done when it's your child. But I would say slow down and really embrace what's in front of you. The world is such an amazing place with amazing people. Be appreciative and step back and see where you are.

42:58
Mara Kamat
What about you, James?

42:59
James Aguilar
I would give myself the advice to stay weird. I think that it's really on my mind because I see the students, they grow up, and maybe they're into worms and frogs, but their friends are into skincare. If you want to be into frogs, just be into frogs. I think it's about that authenticity. And I wish I would have just not conformed and then had to reweird myself. The advice I would give to myself is, stay weird. Like, don't conform.

43:27
Carrie Aguilar
That's wonderful. I always say, why be normal when.

43:31
James Aguilar
You can be me?

43:32
Mara Kamat
Okay, our final question. We ask this every time before we close out the show. What is bringing you joy right now?

43:40
Aaron Kamat
I think my family brings me joy. Because if I look back and I say, for so many years, I was trying to run around and seek what joy was, right? So if somebody invited me to go play golf, I would say yes, but it was at the expense of myself because I really wanted to be home. And I think experiencing travel and skiing with my kids and my wife was the most important part. That it took time for me to step back and realize where that joy was. And I think we chase things, people collect certain things, but I think at the end of the day, we have to be authentic.

44:13
Aaron Kamat
Like James is saying to ourself, I thought I wanted to be there, or I thought I wanted to go on that trip with the boys, but I didn't really want to be there. I want it to be included. I want it to be thought of. And I'm realizing more and more a cabin in the woods with the four people that matter, three people plus the dog that matter the most is okay. I'm trying to get Mara there too, though.

44:37
James Aguilar
It sounded like you were excluding someone.

44:39
Mara Kamat
I love that I'm working at it.

44:41
Aaron Kamat
You know, being fully working.

44:42
James Aguilar
Oh, it's you and the girls I see.

44:44
Carrie Aguilar
Yeah.

44:44
James Aguilar
What's bringing me joy?

44:46
Carrie Aguilar
I feel like working out is bringing you lots of joy. You have three different modalities. Right now.

44:50
James Aguilar
I think for the first time in my life, I'm taking time away from the family to take care of my physical health in different ways. I don't think there's anything I do that makes me a better father or partner than taking that time to exercise in those ways. Thank you for your support and sending me to exercise.

45:13
Carrie Aguilar
Of course. Anytime.

45:14
Mara Kamat
Aaron James, thank you so much for being with us today, being honest, funny, and bringing your authentic selves to the table.

45:22
Carrie Aguilar
We started In Her Land to amplify women's stories and inspire change. And it's conversations like this with the people closest to us that remind us why this work matters. Thanks to everyone listening. Keep building, keep dreaming and keep daring In Her Land.

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