From Code to Community with Felicia Williams Johnson
00:03
Carrie Aguilar
Welcome to In Her Land, the podcast where women's stories take center stage. I'm Carrie.
00:09
Mara Kamat
And I'm Mara. And we're here to jump into the journeys, triumphs andinspirations of incredible women shaping the land. But first, let's set thevibe with our three rules.
00:23
Carrie Aguilar
Number one, no elevator pitches. We want the real you, not the rehearsedversion. Number two, authenticity only. Bring your true, unfiltered self. Andlastly, no assholes allowed. This space is all about empowerment and respect.
00:41
Mara Kamat
Each episode promises raw, inspiring, and sometimes laugh out loudconversations that celebrate the beauty of being unapologetically yourself. Soget cozy, stay curious, and let's explore In Her Land.
Welcome to In Her Land,the podcast where we explore the journeys of women navigating careers,motherhood, and life's unexpected twists with strength and resilience. I'm Mara Kamat.
01:14
Carrie Aguilar
And I'm Carrie Aguilar. Together we dive into the real stories of women who areredefining success on their own terms. Today we are so excited to welcome Felicia Williams Johnson, an entrepreneur mother and a woman who has navigatedlife's transitions with grit, grace, and wisdom. Felicia, welcome. We can'twait to hear your story.
01:37
Felicia Williams Johnson
Thank you. I'm happy to be here. Excited to talk about it.
01:40
Mara Kamat
Awesome. Let's start at the beginning first. I'd love to hear a little bitabout you as a person, as a human, as a mother. Let's start there.
01:49
Felicia Williams Johnson
Sure, I'd love to. So I am blessed to have two beautiful, amazing daughters.They're 23 and 21. Lauren, the 23 year old lives in New York City. She's justkilling it. She's a finance and marketing equity analyst there and just startedher life. Graduated from Syracuse summa cum laude. So very proud. My Victoriais 21, graduating in May from George Washington University with a degree inpolitical science, communications and journalism. So both amazing, the bestthings I've done. So they. I am so proud of them. That's me as a mother. I amalso a daughter to two amazing humans. My mother is white German fromNuremberg, Germany, and my father is black from Enterprise, Alabama. They'vebeen together for over 65 years. I grew up in Beechwood. They still live inBeechwood. I came out of Beechwood in 1989.
02:42
Felicia Williams Johnson
So 53 years old at this point in my amazing life. So I had an amazing start tomy life just growing up in a community that was obviously 90% Jewish at thetime growing up, but they were the only community that would actually sell ahome to my parents. Being that my father was black, mother was white, they werethe only ones in the area that would actually sell a home to them. So we woundup in Beechwood. My sisters and I have two older sisters. So it's been a prettyamazing journey from just where I started.
03:07
Mara Kamat
That's crazy to even think about, right? That, yes, it was 40, 50 years ago,but, like, even so, that the world existed in that way. Oh, totally. And thatthis was the only area they felt like they could live in at the time.
03:22
Felicia Williams Johnson
Yeah.
03:23
Carrie Aguilar
Well, in what year did your parents get together?
03:25
Felicia Williams Johnson
So my dad was in the army, in the service at that time. So, yeah, he was inMunich, Germany, actually serving in the war.
03:31
Carrie Aguilar
That's where they met.
03:32
Felicia Williams Johnson
That's where they met. And he actually brought her back to America. She'sactually still not an American citizen. She refuses to become an Americancitizen. She thinks we're all nuts. So she's still a German citizen and votesabsolutely valid.
03:44
Carrie Aguilar
She might have some.
03:44
Felicia Williams Johnson
I believe she's correct in every sense of the word and nothing else we can doabout that. But they are an amazing couple. And I think that's what sort ofprobably started creating for me, who I became and why I became. Just from thegrit and resilience that you talked about in the beginning. It started off.That's all we saw growing up and what that would look like. That's really cool.Yeah. Be placed into an area and a situation that might not be for you, but youmake it your own. So it's something that I've had instilled in me since I was.I can never remember. I can always feel like I believe I had that. That sort ofgrit.
04:21
Felicia Williams Johnson
And that you got this mentality from both parents, even though they came fromvery different perspectives for why that existed, which was pretty amazing. Andboth. Both of them educated, college educated, as well as had. Both of them hadamazing careers even growing up. So I was able to see a woman working for afamily that was pretty, you know, for the most part, a biracial family, butminorities. And as a white woman in the world, nobody knew she was married to ablack man with three black children until she showed up in the room with us.And it was pretty shocking. So, yeah, it just wasn't normal. My mother workedfor Channel 3 for NBC, WKYC, and she was in public affairs. Publicadministration. Yeah. So she has higher degrees from actually out of Germanyand then actually in Paris, France.
05:06
Felicia Williams Johnson
So she spoke four languages coming here. English was her third language.
05:10
Carrie Aguilar
Wow.
05:10
Felicia Williams Johnson
And, yeah, so she had a Background in communications and public affairs.
05:14
Carrie Aguilar
She's like a total badass.
05:15
Felicia Williams Johnson
She's a total badass. She doesn't take any mess. She's a force to be reckonedwith. It's incredible. And my dad was in technology. He used to fix thecomputer systems at Ameritrust bank, which is now KeyBank, and he used to fixthe computers for them. And he worked second and third shift for them. And whenthe computers, he would fix them and his team would fix them and they were nolonger using them and decided to get new ones, he would bring them home. So Iwas in sixth grade playing in computers because he would bring them home. Andthat's how I got into technology.
05:46
Mara Kamat
Yeah, I was going to say that's like a perfect transition.
05:48
Felicia Williams Johnson
That's how I got into technology.
05:50
Mara Kamat
So tell us about you and your career path. Right. So it really started young ingetting you inspired and excited about technology. It became a key part of yourupbringing.
06:00
Felicia Williams Johnson
Totally.
06:00
Mara Kamat
So tell us about what you do today, how you got there, all those things.
06:05
Felicia Williams Johnson
Sure, sure. So, as I said, so Daddy worked at Ameritrust and he would bringhome Apple IIes, if anybody remembers that, with the floppy disks. Yeah. AndDaddy would bring them home, and after he would have them fixed up, he waslike, you know, here, go at it. So again, being in Beechwood, I was veryblessed because Beechwood, many of the schools didn't have this at the time inlike the early 80s, had a computer lab when they were first coming out. So Iwas able to have it at home and then at school and at home they would be likevideo games that would teach me how to type, like Asteroids. Like, there wouldbe a thing that would come up and you would have to get on the type board, typethe type, the word press, the space bar.
06:41
Felicia Williams Johnson
And it would be like, yep, that asteroid went away. So I got really into howthis is working and why it's working. And then at Beechwood, we had classesthat I got into immediately with the computer lab to just start writing code.
06:53
Mara Kamat
Oh, that's cool.
06:53
Felicia Williams Johnson
Just start writing technology code. So from there, I knew I wanted to docomputer science as a major. So I went to Bowling Green State University. Itwas actually the one school that gave us money for me to go. At the time, theywere really doing a lot to bring on more African American students into thecommunity. And I didn't want to be too far. I was 17 when I graduated from highschool, so I was really young. I didn't want to be too far from home. I don'tthink my parents did either. So I went to Bowling Green, had an academicscholarship there. I got my degree in computer science. And then I wound upstaying and getting my master's degree in computer science with a focus onsoftware engineering. And that was kind of almost my catapult to deciding atthat time.
07:33
Felicia Williams Johnson
I was like, I'm going to keep going, get my PhD. So I started working on mydoctoral work in human computer interaction in 1993, which was how the effectsof technology was going to affect humans in 1993.
07:46
Mara Kamat
I was real smart, but I wound.
07:49
Felicia Williams Johnson
Up deciding at that time to get married and start raising the girls. So Istopped that track after some classes that I had taken at George WashingtonUniversity and came back to Cleveland, started to really work on, let me getmarried. Let's start to have kids. So the girls, dad and I at the time, kind oftook that trajectory. But right after all of that education, I had my first jobat Ernst and Young, and I wound up having an internship with them for twosummers. So I knew them really well, and they hired me basically right out ofcollege. And I was going to work for them in their information technologygroup. And I wanted to be a coder. I was like, I'm going to be a technologycoder. That's what I'm going to do. I'm algorithmic.
08:29
Felicia Williams Johnson
I'm going to code for a living. I was the only African American and female inmy graduate degree classes.
08:37
Carrie Aguilar
So to clarify, the only black person.
08:39
Felicia Williams Johnson
Black person, female in my graduate school.
08:42
Carrie Aguilar
So not only the only woman, but.
08:44
Felicia Williams Johnson
Also the only black person. So. Exactly. So I was very used to kind of beingthe only. And I grew up in Beechwood.
08:49
Carrie Aguilar
Right, right.
08:50
Felicia Williams Johnson
So to me, I'm right, I'm good. You know, I didn't have any, like, you know, I'mjust used to it. Anyway. So I come out and I go work for Ernst and Young, whereagain.
09:00
Carrie Aguilar
Right, you're the only.
09:01
Felicia Williams Johnson
I'm the only female African American in my entire group. So I wound up codingand building out key banks. They were at Meer Trust still at the time,migrating over to KeyBank in that year. And I was the lead coder for bringingthe legacy technology systems into the new Windows DOS platform. So I wascoding it. I was the lead developer on it, and the project manager that was onour project at that time wound up going to a new job, and the partner that wasin charge of our group said, would you mind taking over the project managementresponsibilities? So I had now been there maybe two Years I was like, sure. SoI was coding and now learning project management, which meant I had to sort ofget in front of these clients, start talking. Da, da, da, da.
09:47
Carrie Aguilar
Wow.
09:47
Felicia Williams Johnson
And so I learned kind of how to speak in this environment, even being the only.Having that confidence was not there automatically. It was something that waslearned over time. And I had some beautiful mentors that really pushed me tosay, you got this. We got you. We're in the room with you. We are supportingyou. So I moved from coding into project management and then eventually beinglike the client executive, which was the liaison between all the technologyprojects and these C suiters with these companies to sort of deliver on thetechnology. And that started my career to say, I could do this on my own.
10:24
Mara Kamat
How long were you at ENY for?
10:27
Felicia Williams Johnson
Four years.
10:28
Mara Kamat
And so, you know, during that time, you brought up some, like, really beautifulpoints. You had mentors that helped you grow. You also talked about being theonly. So I think, you know, as women, those two topics can be challenging attimes. How did you. I know when I was in a chro position and when I was theonly woman on the team, it was hard to be the only.
10:49
Carrie Aguilar
Sure.
10:50
Mara Kamat
What has that. How have you navigated that? How have you become comfortablewith that? And what advice do you have for others as they may be navigating,being the only in their teams or in their work?
11:02
Felicia Williams Johnson
Yeah, that's an excellent question. I would honestly say that as women, it'sreally important to see yourself. A lot of times we are looking for validationfrom others, and it's very important to see yourself. How you do that iscompletely your journey. But find it to be the journey that brings you to whereyou want to be. Here's the difference. Mentors, I would have told my youngerself, and I say this to my daughters. Find mentors in that in which you want tobecome. If you don't. My one daughter who's gay, we talk about her often. Shewas. She wants to look for mentors that are gay women doing something amazingthat will help her be in that same world that she wants to be in and look likethat. Because you, most of the time, your professors didn't look like you're.
11:56
Felicia Williams Johnson
Your physicians didn't look like you. All of that existed. So find that inwhich you want to become. I would say for women, do not be afraid to ask formentorship. Would you be willing to be my mentor? Is the easiest thing you canask. I guarantee you're going to find so many women that are Going to sayabsolutely, because were you at one point and needed that. Most of my mentorsin my 20s were white men.
12:21
Carrie Aguilar
Yeah, I was gonna ask.
12:22
Felicia Williams Johnson
They were all white men. I didn't get black mentors until I was in my 40s. Andwomen. Black women mentors. I have about seven mentors right now, but I alsohave two life coaches. One is a woman and the other is a black woman. I tell mydaughters now to this day, we're gonna start life coaching today because it'sgonna start to give you a voice for yourself, however that looks. It'ssomething that if you start in your 20s. I'm also getting my ICF, my coachingcertification right now for my retirement plan. But it's something that canhelp you find your voice. You don't even know you don't have the voice untilyou go to use it, and it's not there.
12:59
Carrie Aguilar
Right.
13:00
Felicia Williams Johnson
You don't even know you don't have it. So start off early.
13:03
Carrie Aguilar
Can I. So when you talk about life coaches, just to confirm, clarify, these arepeople that you pay to help provide clarity in your, like, next step in yourlife?
13:16
Felicia Williams Johnson
Absolutely. It's an investment in yourself. I tell my daughters that it'sactually one of my gifts to them is the first year of it. I also have some lifecoaches that are in my Rolodex that do pro bono work. So, yes, there are somethat you can pay for. There are also some that are willing to do it, you know,on behalf of just trying to help some others. I will be offering that in mycoaching as well. And yes, it. Life coaching is very specific to tapping intowhat you don't know that you don't know about yourself to help you be the bestversion of whoever that is.
13:47
Mara Kamat
How do you look at the difference between life coaching and therapy?
13:50
Carrie Aguilar
Yeah.
13:50
Felicia Williams Johnson
Oh. Life coaching, to me is more about helping somebody identify any issues,challenges, or outcomes that they're looking to produce for themselves, helpingthem determine what those goals are and how they're going to hold themselvesaccountable to reach them. Therapy is when you're trying to work on or fixsomething that might have caused you trauma or something in the past that'sgiving you a barrier or a blocker. In coaching, you almost uncover sometimesbarriers that require therapy. Almost. But a lot of. But you think aboutcoaching, it's more about uncovering issues, challenges, and outcomes thatsomebody wants to perform for themselves.
14:25
Carrie Aguilar
So, like, life coaching creates the need for therapy. I'm just.
14:29
Felicia Williams Johnson
Well, I got to be honest with you. Oh, yeah. What comes out of Coaching. Whatcame out of coaching for me was I remember that one of the very first timesthat I wound up getting a coach was in between my second and third marriage.I'm on my third marriage and he's phenomenal. I'm done. It took a while. I wasa common denominator. I'm very clear on that. So, yeah, he's amazing. And bothof my ex husbands are fantastic. Like, we have a beautiful relationship. It'swonderful. The girl's dad and then my second ex husband. Beautiful. But what Irealized in that was I had trauma, I had to heal, and it was about. It reallywas me. And that's okay.
15:05
Carrie Aguilar
Yeah, yeah.
15:05
Felicia Williams Johnson
It was just part of my, you know, I talk to women all the time.
15:07
Carrie Aguilar
You're a work in progress.
15:08
Felicia Williams Johnson
Amen.
15:09
Mara Kamat
We all are.
15:10
Felicia Williams Johnson
I built a fire pit in my backyard after the second. The second divorce. And Iwas like, damn, girl, get your together. So I built this fire pit with my owntwo hands. It's this beautiful fire pit.
15:20
Mara Kamat
I've sat around the fire pit.
15:21
Felicia Williams Johnson
I've sat around it. It's beautiful. And the point of building it was tomanifest how we can come together around the fire pit, talk about what ourreset buttons are and see how to support each other in it. So I just believethat reset buttons are critical. You're going to have them and it's okay. Andhow do you make that normalize that? I'm going to hit this reset button. I'mnot asking you to run from what you have to do.
15:44
Carrie Aguilar
Right.
15:45
Felicia Williams Johnson
But what is that reset button and how do you help support each other in it?
15:48
Mara Kamat
So let's talk a little bit about that because that's like, on my agenda. I feltlike I have two young daughters, 9 and 11. I was traveling back and forth toNew York, managing my consulting firm and a number of clients. And were gettingready to go on vacation and I got the stomach flu. So I really felt like, oh,my gosh, the northern part. How am I gonna get through this? And I was supposedto leave for Japan. So I said to my husband, like, hey, buddy, we gotta delay afew days. I'm not gonna make it. And we can't be on a plane.
16:22
Felicia Williams Johnson
I can't.
16:23
Mara Kamat
I couldn't do it.
16:23
Felicia Williams Johnson
Please don't make me do it.
16:24
Mara Kamat
And we adjusted. But, like, what was so beautiful is went to Japan for 12 days.We were with friends. We were together. I needed that moment to kind of likereset. Like, I needed a moment to insert something that just made me look atlife completely different gave me rest, relaxation, and a moment to kind of,like, be introspective and thoughtful. How do you. In the midst of, like, thechaos of life, how do you get yourself to be able to, like, press that resetbutton?
16:56
Felicia Williams Johnson
I press that button every single morning. I start my morning with my Metta onmy forehead. And I go underwater with the fish, and I meditate, and it's aguided meditation for myself every morning.
17:10
Carrie Aguilar
So you're talking. Because you guys can't see. She put it on her head.
17:16
Felicia Williams Johnson
So you're talking about. It's my meta quest. VR. I'm in a whole entire virtualreality. And the reset is the thought process for the day. You just finished anevening. You know you're about to hit the ground running. You're gonna sh. Takea minute. I talk to God and I put on my meta quest. I go underwater with thefish and I meditate. I meditate and I bring myself into this zone and thisspace of it's just me. It's 18 minutes every single day. I hit that button, andthat's my reset to start my day. Every day, Thursdays, I do a breathing classwith a number of other women. We do a breathwork class from 12 to 1245. And Itake out 30 minutes every day. It's blocked off on my calendar.
18:00
Felicia Williams Johnson
You may not go over it, where I just take a minute and I breathe by myself. Mylife, reset buttons I do. Every Sunday is my day. Every Sunday. Even when I hadthe girls. Even when the girls were living with me. Go away. It is my day.
18:17
Carrie Aguilar
Go away.
18:18
Felicia Williams Johnson
It's my day. If you wanna be with me on my day, that's fine. But we're.
18:21
Carrie Aguilar
Shh.
18:23
Felicia Williams Johnson
We're watching what I want. We're relaxing, we're ordering food, we'rechilling. Now I love my Sundays. Cause I meal prep for Sam and I. I watch alltrash television. So that's my reset. If you're my good friend, you know, don'tcall me on Sunday. I don't want that. So that's like my way of just kind ofgetting my mind right. And I've had a very busy week, right? Everybody'spulling on me. Even with the girls not around. I talk to them every day.There's five messages on my phone right now from them. Where are you? What areyou doing? Why aren't you at home?
18:54
Carrie Aguilar
Right, right.
18:54
Felicia Williams Johnson
I see that you're somewhere else because they follow me on the map. Where areyou and why are you? It's just insane. I mean, it's like why are you worriedabout me? Yeah, why are you. Why are you not at home? Like, who has a dog? Youknow? Yeah, exactly. Well, what's Lola doing? Lola's in her crate. But they're,you know, they're. She's interesting. And then the fire pit is there whenthings are really big, you know, when I need a reset in my career.
19:16
Carrie Aguilar
I love that.
19:16
Felicia Williams Johnson
Let's get around the fire pit, ladies. And there are villages there. Let's doit. I got the wine. I got this. I got the charcuterie. We learned how. We nowcook our charcuterie in the fire pit. April Boyce brought me this cool littlething, and now we, like, do all this fun stuff, and. And that's the reset.Like, ladies, here's what I'm doing. Here's what I'm charged with. I need youto hold me accountable for. What do you need? Da, da, da. You know? And that'sthe reset. Sometimes if it's larger or somebody will throw up a hat. I need. Ineed the fire pit. Let's go. So. All right. Thursday. Thursday at 7. See youthere.
19:44
Carrie Aguilar
Yeah, I love that. I feel like recently I've, like, the last. I was very sick,like, two weeks ago. Well, last week. And just the last few days. I don't knowif you guys have ever felt this way, but I have felt the need to reset. Butmore than that, I have, like, avoided. Like, I have avoided all of the thingsthat I know that I've needed to do.
20:08
Felicia Williams Johnson
Why?
20:09
Carrie Aguilar
Just because. Just because I know I need to handle it. I know I need to dothings differently. And I've just been like, I don't want to have aconversation. I don't want to, Like, I don't really want to handle this. I'mjust not going to. And it's just been. It hasn't been good. But I was tellingMara before, because we had, like, lunch or whatever, and I was like, I'mfinally feeling, like, this week, I'm feeling good because I'm like, yeah,like, having conversations that I should have had. But I love, like, thehaving, like, a ritual with the reset, because I think that's so important.Cause if you don't, you're just kind of in a routine.
20:47
Felicia Williams Johnson
You really are.
20:48
Carrie Aguilar
And then you're just kind of stuck.
20:50
Felicia Williams Johnson
Stuck. And you know what I always ask myself? Like, what barriers are in placefor me not to do it that need to be removed, and what happens if I don't dothis? What happens if I don't? Well, geez, if I don't. And sometimes that getsme to move when I'm like, well, what if I do? I need to have that conversation.Yeah, you do. Because if you don't, these things will happen. And I'm like,okay. But then there are things that I'm also realizing are just not in mycontrol. So some of my reset used to be about things that I ain't got nobusiness dealing with.
21:16
Carrie Aguilar
Right.
21:17
Felicia Williams Johnson
You have no business over there. That's not even your business.
21:19
Carrie Aguilar
Right.
21:20
Felicia Williams Johnson
So why are you making that your thing to reset? It has nothing to do with you.
21:23
Carrie Aguilar
Yeah.
21:24
Felicia Williams Johnson
So. And even if it's about the kids, I've had to say, you know what? You'readults now. I told you what I know. I know I'm right. Do your thing.
21:32
Mara Kamat
They gotta make their own mistakes and learn.
21:34
Felicia Williams Johnson
Yeah. And I love you for all of it, so. And it's really hard to do that becauseespecially I was a single mother for, you know, since they were 8 and 6 yearsold. And I am their everything to everything. And it's very hard to learn thatnew role. That was another big reset I had to do as a mother. What does thatreset look like? Not that I'm going away, but we have shifted.
21:57
Mara Kamat
Yeah.
21:57
Felicia Williams Johnson
In a way that's beautiful and kind of sad to me because.
22:02
Mara Kamat
How old are your girls?
22:03
Felicia Williams Johnson
21 and 23.
22:04
Mara Kamat
Yeah. They're becoming independent girl.
22:07
Felicia Williams Johnson
Yes.
22:08
Mara Kamat
Make their own decisions.
22:10
Felicia Williams Johnson
New York and D.C. I mean, girl. And they're fabulous, but they're very. They'revery different. One is probably a very much of a mini me, so I don't worryabout her, but the other one. The other one I absolutely worry about because.And maybe worry's not the right word, but her journey just looks very differentthan the other one. Cause the other I can identify with Lauren's journey. Causeit looks very similar to mine. You know exactly what you want to do. Boom,boom. Victoria's my gypsy. And it's beautiful because she looks at life sodifferent than we do. And so as a mother, I've had to reset how we communicate.I've had to reset how I support her. Well, it's just been different becauseshe.
22:48
Carrie Aguilar
Isn'T like your mini me. You don't know that version of yourself.
22:52
Felicia Williams Johnson
I don't. And I want to get to know that version so that there might besomething from her I can learn. You know, the way she sort of lets things go,I'm like, damn, what would that feel like? You know what I mean? So, I mean.And sometimes were On a cruise. And she said to me, she's like, mom, you're aknow it all. But at the same time, like, you're fun. And I'm thinking, okay,but I do. I know it all. She's like, you do? And I'm like, well, maybe I do.But I'm like, well, don't you love that about me? But you love that.
23:18
Carrie Aguilar
Don't you love that about me?
23:19
Felicia Williams Johnson
Because that's why you always come to me. But it's. But it's been aninteresting but, right?
23:22
Carrie Aguilar
You love that about me, right?
23:23
Felicia Williams Johnson
You do, right? And don't forget, I'm paying for everything. Like, you do knowhow to answer that, right? You could thank me for your entire life, so. Yourentire life.
23:33
Carrie Aguilar
Right, Right.
23:34
Felicia Williams Johnson
But it is the right answer. It's been an interesting recession. Even with that.Like, even with that and career. I mean, everything's been a reset, you know?
23:41
Mara Kamat
So let's talk about your daughters for a second. You have one daughter who ispart of the LGBTQ community.
23:47
Felicia Williams Johnson
Yes.
23:48
Mara Kamat
How have you supported her in her journey? What does that look like?
23:52
Felicia Williams Johnson
I love this journey. So I have known that my Victoria has been gay since shewas about three and a half. I love hearing that. And I loved it. And I knew it.Little things.
24:03
Carrie Aguilar
How did you know?
24:03
Felicia Williams Johnson
I'll tell you. So my Lauren, the oldest one, is a girl's girl. Girly girl,girl, girly girl. My Victoria was the complete opposite of that. She wanted todress like Michael Jackson almost every one of our Christmas pictures for,like, five years in a row, she's dressed like Michael Jackson.
24:19
Carrie Aguilar
Okay.
24:19
Felicia Williams Johnson
And I let her.
24:20
Carrie Aguilar
Yeah.
24:20
Felicia Williams Johnson
Yeah. My mother would take them shopping at, like, 4 and 5 and would want toput them in the same cute dresses. And Victoria would scream and cry bloodymurder. I'm thinking it's a dress. At first we thought she's just a tomboy, butthen she wanted to play with things. The complete opposite of Lauren. Like, GIJoe figures. And we called them fighter guys, and nothing of them were thesame. When I tell you the difference, and I remember she was, like, 4 or 5. AndI'm going, everybody does know that it's either a tomboy or she's gay. Whathappened was, when she turned about 7 or 8, they were at Laurel. They were atLaurel from preschool up to, like, eighth grade, and we're at Laurel, and herfriends were all the boys. Like, she wanted to do everything with the guys.
25:10
Felicia Williams Johnson
And then when it was time to start, like, your first dance and, you know, westarted to do things like, the us. I noticed that she only wanted. She was,like, kind of interested in, you know, one of the other girls going. And I'mlike, okay, this is funky. So I would start asking her questions about, youknow, so do you want to, you know, do you want to kiss her? Mom, I don't wantto talk about my sexuality. I didn't ask about your sexuality. I asked if youwere thinking about giving her a kiss. I didn't ask about. So she was almosttelling on herself. And so I.
25:44
Carrie Aguilar
You were like, wasn't asking that question.
25:46
Felicia Williams Johnson
And early on, I would always say to her, when you want to talk, we can talk andhave some fun. And she was like, I don't want to. I don't want to. So this onemorning, we go town hall. Never forget it. It was on a Saturday at about 11:30.She said, mom, can you. Lauren And I go to breakfast? And I was like, sure.Lauren happened to be at a sleepover with some friends and wasn't home. Wasgonna stay out, gonna stay a bit later with them. So it wound up just being thetwo of us.
26:06
Mara Kamat
Town hall is a restaurant, by the way.
26:08
Felicia Williams Johnson
Yeah, Town hall is a restaurant, which I don't support anymore. And so we'resitting at town hall, and we're upstairs, and we had just ordered our food, andVictoria's very quiet. And I said, honey, you okay? She's 14. And she said,mom, I have something to tell you. And she starts to tear up. And I said, oh,honey, you have to say it. It cannot be me. You have to say it. And she says,I'm gay. I said, hell, yeah, you are, girl. When I tell you we celebrated thatday, I took her shop and buy whatever you want. I was so happy and proud. Andthen the next day, all of my village, I have this strong, funky, black woman'sgirl, magic village. And all of the aunties came over and we celebrated herbecause everybody was just waiting.
26:47
Felicia Williams Johnson
So she always knew she was gonna be celebrated. We just needed you to say it.Yeah, can't be us. But I always knew. I always knew that. Always knew. And sheknew that. She tells this story her way over and over again. And to this day, Imean, I am all of her friends, mom, you know. Cause they all don't have thesame story. And it has been a beautiful journey. And I'm still learning. Wewere talking earlier. I'll still be messing up pronouns and all that stuff, butshe's a she her. But she might date someone who's a they them. So I'm learning,trying to be the best ally that I possibly can. And it has been a beautifuljourney, and I love it. She's so strong. So I'm so impressed with her and justher conviction and who she is.
27:31
Felicia Williams Johnson
It's just beautiful. It's absolutely beautiful. And I remember she said to me,well, mom, you always give Lauren advice for dating. I think you need to giveme advice. I said, honey, it's the same thing with men and women. They all try.They all gonna do the same thing to you that they do to each. There's nothingdifferent, you know? So it's a blast. It's a really fun journey. I'm blessed tobe on it with her.
27:51
Mara Kamat
So thank you for sharing it.
27:52
Felicia Williams Johnson
Absolutely.
27:53
Mara Kamat
Love to hear about it. So I'm gonna pivot us back for a second, if that's okay.So you leave Eny. You're raising these two amazing daughters, navigating life.You have, you know, three marriages over time, right? Now, tell us aboutprofessionally, what you were navigating during all of this.
28:14
Felicia Williams Johnson
Yeah, so that's a great question. So when I was working at Ernst and Young,that was when I uncovered how much they were paying. They were asking companiesto pay for my hourly rate. And when I saw that it's easy to do some math, and Iwas like, I'm not getting paid 30%, any of that. Right? And I said, but I'm thereason why these customers are happy. So I went out on my own, and I started myown consulting company, Point To Point Consulting. Number of people came withme, and I had a number of clients that came with me. So that was my firstentrepreneur bug, was that I could. And I was. At the time I was pregnant withLauren. I was 30, pregnant with my first.
28:53
Felicia Williams Johnson
And I thought this was a perfect opportunity for me to do that as well. Ialready have clients. I already have everything set up, and I can then createmy own schedule, which is really what I wanted. Cause back then, you got like,two weeks off or you had to go into your pto, and you certainly weren't able todo flex time like that. Just. You're not doing that. So I knew that I needed tomake a change. And I had been working 70, 80 hours a week. It was just insane,Right? So it was the first time I went off on my own and did my consultingcompany. And it grew. I had about 25 to 30 consultants that were all overnationally. We weren't just here in Cleveland, actually. We were all overnationally because my accounts with.
29:33
Felicia Williams Johnson
With Ernst And Young took me to Chicago and to New York. So I had a lot ofother clients. Like, you know, Carter's was a big client of mine and Children'sPlace was client of mine. I was focusing a lot in retail, and that was at thetime that E Commerce took off. Remember, there was E Commerce at the time. AndE business companies were like, hey, we can use the web for this thing. So mycompany was very much focused on that. And I wound up becoming a very strategicthought leader in the technology space for helping companies figure out how tomake that happen for themselves. And then I would have consultants come in anddo the work, and then I would keep going out and finding more clients and thelike.
30:09
Felicia Williams Johnson
And I did all this while I was pregnant with Lauren. And then when I waspregnant with Victoria, I still had the business up and running. And then whenthe girls were in about fourth and fifth grade, it was. That's when I first gotapproached to say, hey by a company that said, hey, we're thinking aboutbringing in an entire E business E commerce wing to our company. Would you bewilling to come in as a partner? And I was like, I absolutely would. This isperfect. I can then start to sort of be under a different umbrella, still dowhat I want to do, how I want to do it, and still stay an entrepreneur. Mycareer stayed that way. I wound up then helping companies, very large companieslike Razorfish, very large companies that I'm with now, company Slalom.
30:51
Felicia Williams Johnson
And I work entrepreneurially, growing their markets and their organizationsfrom a technology perspective and how digital can help them. So I never leftthe world. I now I'm starting up a Cleveland market, for instance, right nowfor Slalom, which is the company I work with now, which is bringing all theFortune 5002000 companies into a Cleveland market. We'll be having an officehere. We're having a local presence with a global reach. But it's reallyimportant. And so I'm in the back nine of my career now, and I love this work.I love the technology. I can talk about it till the day is long. I'm agnosticfrom a platform perspective because I know enough about each of them and nomatter what vein, it is to be dangerous, whether it's data, whether it'scommerce, whether it's digital experience, whether it's digital marketing.
31:34
Felicia Williams Johnson
Martech Stack, I know enough about it. So it's been a lot of fun in growingthat muscle. And it's time. I'm on the back nine. So it's time to my resetbutton will look different in about seven years, but I'll be coachingsomewhere.
31:46
Mara Kamat
Yeah. So in this spirit of that, what's so interesting about your career is,like, the digital landscape, the technology landscape has just changed so muchover those years.
31:58
Felicia Williams Johnson
Yes.
31:59
Mara Kamat
How did you keep yourself, like, contemporary, knowing what's happening,Especially looking forward.
32:05
Carrie Aguilar
Wanting to look forward.
32:06
Felicia Williams Johnson
Yeah.
32:06
Mara Kamat
Especially in the midst of all the other things you're managing with home andlife. And, you know, I find that a challenge now. Sometimes I'm like, how do Imake sure I keep myself contemporary? So how did you do that?
32:15
Felicia Williams Johnson
So I love that. Remember I said when in 93, 94, I was starting to work onwanting to get my doctorate in human computer interaction. I have always had amind that was, like, four steps ahead of thinking. I'll tell you a story. I. Ihad an idea if I'm going to make sure that my girlfriend Karen's listening tothis podcast when it's done. I had an idea back in, I want to say, 97, 98, andit was called Olga, Online Guidance Advisor. And I was like, I bet you I couldcreate something that could go in people's cars or even, like, somehow on theircomputers, and it's some sort of a guidance that helps them. Her name is Olga.Every day. No, this is on your calendar. This is where you're going. This iswhat you're.
32:56
Felicia Williams Johnson
And I could put it in your car. Can you say Siri? I was so mad when Siri cameout. I was like. And my girlfriend said, olga.
33:03
Carrie Aguilar
Olga, is that you?
33:05
Felicia Williams Johnson
Olga? I was so mad. So I've always kind of had this brain that thought ahead,and I kept always in the spirit of learning. I'm addicted to learning. I'maddicted to learning in this world. I'm addicted to knowing just enough to stayrelevant and just enough to stay ahead. I am 53 now, so I've been in thisindustry for 30 years. And I remember how I looked when I started. Remember Iwas developing. I was a coder, but wanted to know about project management. Iwas always looking for, how do I know something about everything and thenfigure out what my lane's gonna be. Now it's sales, because now I can talkabout anything and know who's really smart that I should bring to the nextmeeting. That's all my goal is right now. Who's really smart? Oh, I'm gonnabring in Thad.
33:53
Felicia Williams Johnson
I'm gonna bring in Andrea. Like, I know who your next call needs to be, but. SoI've gotten enough now to be just dangerous for that next conversation, I nolonger know enough on how to implement. I now got smarter on who you shouldtalk to. And so I have a huge network that's global, that's national. I mean, Ihave people outside of the U.S. My network has been very crafted in a way that,from my brand's perspective, helps me still stay relevant. I'm always listeningto what the latest is in data. What the AI is my, you know, became my bigpassion years ago when people thought it was just gonna be about data. No ideawhat it's gonna become about predictive.
34:30
Felicia Williams Johnson
So I always kept myself up reading other podcasts now that I can listen to inmy car when I'm driving just to hear about something, but I'm always reading.And again, with my network, I can say, hey, Arvin Murali, what's going on now?What's happening now? What do you think's coming up? Oh, Felicia, people aregonna be talking about, you know, okay, that's interesting. Like, I'm alwayshearing it, but again, at 53, I don't. I don't care about how it gets done. Ijust care about that you might want it done right. Yeah. So it's. But it's beeninteresting, but I always stay inquisitive. I think that's the biggest thing isI'm always interested and I don't know a stranger, so I love to talk about itwith anybody, about anything, so becomes interesting.
35:13
Mara Kamat
That's what makes you great on this podcast in general.
35:15
Carrie Aguilar
I love it.
35:16
Mara Kamat
If you had to go back in time and tell your younger self, like, give youryounger self some advice from 10 years ago, 15 years ago, for, like, all thewomen that are listening, what advice would you have given yourself?
35:28
Felicia Williams Johnson
I would say that the advice that I would have given myself is allow yourself tobe okay with exactly who you are. It's perfectly imperfect. Perfectlyimperfect. It's okay. I have a tendency, and I still remind myself now that ifsomething doesn't go as planned, I'm way more spiritual now. To know that maybethat was God closing that door. I'm okay with that. Before, I would take it sopersonal. It's okay. Everything's not meant for you. You're not meant foreverything. So you're perfectly imperfect. And it's already done. That's what Iwould tell myself. It's already done.
36:02
Mara Kamat
And in full disclosure, I'm one of those people, right, that, like, I'm alwaysthinking about it, like, should I have done something different? Is this how itshould. Overthinking it when in Reality, like, if I could harness some of thatspirituality, that you found ways to do that.
36:18
Carrie Aguilar
And it could also let it have nothing to. To do with you at all.
36:23
Felicia Williams Johnson
And you know, what I know spiritually is that I am someone who the universeknows you have to shut and slam a door for me. Because I'm gonna say, well, isit still open a little bit? What else up in there? The universe knows. Ithappened last night.
36:37
Carrie Aguilar
You're telling me about your relationship.
36:38
Felicia Williams Johnson
Girl, you better. I told you five ways to Sunday why you should not do that.And you didn't want to listen. So now I gotta slam a door open another one. So,you know, I mean, it is so true. And I know the universe knows that about me.It knows exactly the type of child that I am to it. So it knows that it has toslam a door. My husband said it last night, there is another slam door for yourass. I said, it sure is another slam door. You're like, but let me just shutthis. Why you do.
37:05
Carrie Aguilar
I'm just, like, looking under to see if there's a crack.
37:07
Felicia Williams Johnson
I just want to know. I say that. I try to teach my girls that. I send themspiritual quotes every morning. Now Lauren's, like, sucking it up. Victoria'slike, yeah, whatever. But part of me feels like the universe is like, I gother. But Lauren's like, mom, that's beautiful. But it is. Like, this is whatthe universe is saying to you today. And I do it by date, and I do it by this.And I'm a crystal lover. Like, I got some in my bras. I talk to you now.They're in my bra. Like, oh, yeah, I love tiger's eye. In case something had. Iknow your spirit, but I didn't know yours. So I got. I got a tiger's eye inhere. I know, Mara. So I was like, I don't know about this other one.
37:37
Felicia Williams Johnson
So I'm a big spiritual person just to make sure that I'm in alignment. And Iwould say that to my younger self now, too. Find a vein in which it's somethinghigher than yourself. It doesn't have to be mine, but something that allows youto tap into something that's going to be much bigger than your presence to helpyou move forward in life. Whatever that is, whatever it is. Could be religion.I don't. I don't care what it is. Find something.
38:00
Carrie Aguilar
Whatever.
38:01
Felicia Williams Johnson
Find something moves you forward. Yes. Yeah, because you're gonna get stuck.
38:06
Mara Kamat
Yeah, right.
38:07
Felicia Williams Johnson
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
38:08
Mara Kamat
So you talked about being on the back nine. Like, what are you focusing on?What's important to you now?
38:15
Carrie Aguilar
You've got seven years, I guess.
38:16
Mara Kamat
What are. How are you fueling some of the passions in this last night? Whatdoes this look like for you?
38:22
Felicia Williams Johnson
Well, right now, I'm getting my icf, my International Coaching Federationcertification. So I'm getting my coaching certification right now. And I wantto be a coach. I thought that I was going to be a coach specifically for blackwomen in the C suite to. You know, since being in that road and being on thatvein, I'm learning. However, remember we talked about therapy earlier? I havetriggers. So there's some triggers that I'm working through in therapy rightnow to help me be a better coach to that group. I'm also finding that I likecoaching young people, late, young 20s. I'm finding that's really powerful.I've always sort of been the girl's ally for everything they wanted and theirfriends. So some of them. Right now, my daughter's friends, are my coachingclients.
39:05
Felicia Williams Johnson
I'm doing it for free to help me get my hours up, and I love that. I just wantto coach, and I want to help others find their space. And I sit on a lot ofboards, so I want to do a lot more in philanthropy in that space. And myhusband has a community resource center, so I want to do a lot more work withhim in that. Yeah. So that's what it looks like for me in the next seven yearsis really coaching specifically to women, young women and African Americanwomen in the C suite, and then just enjoying, you know, enjoying life. We'relooking for another second place to live, somewhere in the warmer climates.Yeah. So we're gonna.
39:37
Carrie Aguilar
Can I ask. So you mentioned triggers in therapy. Can you unpack?
39:42
Felicia Williams Johnson
Just.
39:43
Carrie Aguilar
I'm interested if you would share potentially what.
39:47
Felicia Williams Johnson
Yeah, sure. Of course. Microaggressions from white men are big triggers for me.
39:53
Carrie Aguilar
Okay.
39:55
Felicia Williams Johnson
There are white men that don't, and some white women, too, but mostly white menthat I've experienced that will say comments such as, do you understand whatI'm saying? I want to come through the table at them. Like, not only do Iunderstand what you're saying, but I wrote what you're saying. Like, you know,like, it's. And it's triggers. Like, they might not even mean it, but theymight. And it's a trigger because you kind of almost get sick of being the onlyone in the room. And as. And you take it as if you think I'm less than you, andit's a trigger. So. And when you get into the C suite, it gets worse becauseit's like a competitive.
40:30
Carrie Aguilar
So for you, being a life coach in that way, it will be hard.
40:33
Felicia Williams Johnson
Because I'm going to hear them. It's over. Like, I want to. Like, I want to getdown in the mud with you and be like, let me tell you about my experience. Whenthat's not what I'm. I'm not there to do that with you.
40:42
Mara Kamat
Yeah.
40:42
Felicia Williams Johnson
I'm there to help you.
40:43
Carrie Aguilar
Like, you're like, I'm gonna.
40:44
Felicia Williams Johnson
Yeah. And that's hard for me not to say. Girl, let me tell you how to solvethat. You know what I mean? What you need to say is that's what I would do. Soit's. I find that being a trigger for me. So I'm working through that so I canclean it, clear it, and clean it and really heal it. Heal that part of myjourney and that. Because I remember. I remember when I was first starting outin my career. I'll never forget this one, man. And if you heard this podcast,this is kind of funny. I don't think he lives in Cleveland, but he would takemy work and never give me credit for it. In my face.
41:21
Mara Kamat
No thanks, girl.
41:22
Felicia Williams Johnson
And so what, girl? And so when I did, I never said anything in the firstcouple, you know, in the first times he ever did it. But I would sit there.Like, he does see me sitting here. Right. But I didn't have the courage to. Sonow, Felicia Williams Johnson, if I say something and then, you know, usuallywhen you're sitting in your executive meetings, somebody will repeat what Isay, and the way they say it, I say, I'm very glad. Thank you. I'm not sure whyyou needed to restate what I said, but. But if this helps the room, understandthe communication better, thank you. And I appreciate you for that. And I sayit in a way where they're like, I love that. Because I want you to know that Isee you. And I'm gonna need you to see me.
41:58
Carrie Aguilar
I'm right here.
41:59
Felicia Williams Johnson
I'm gonna need you to see me.
42:00
Carrie Aguilar
Before we wrap up. You mentioned a second house.
42:03
Felicia Williams Johnson
Yes.
42:03
Carrie Aguilar
Where do you. You set a warmer location? Do you have your heart set on a warmerlocation?
42:08
Felicia Williams Johnson
Listen, either Puerto Vallarta or Jamaica, like, we're probably not gonna dous.
42:13
Mara Kamat
I love that.
42:13
Felicia Williams Johnson
Yeah, we're not gonna. Probably do us. And we love vacationing there.
42:16
Carrie Aguilar
The girls love going there within the next four years.
42:20
Felicia Williams Johnson
When we go now, like, we're going again a couple Times this year. Yeah, we'relooking for property, we're looking for spaces. We're looking for where andlike it's a different type of a space, but we don't want anything here. Now myparents are 85 and 87 now, so that's also what's kind of keeping me still herebecause I'm the primary caregiver and my husband is helpful with that. So untilthe spirit. Yeah, exactly. Until spirit says something different, we'll be hereprimarily. But when, you know, my parents are no longer, we will be out. CauseI can work from anywhere.
42:49
Carrie Aguilar
Yeah.
42:49
Felicia Williams Johnson
You know, and Sam can, you know, technically too. So we are in a beautifulposition. But we love those areas, but it probably, it will not be us.
42:58
Mara Kamat
Is there anything we didn't cover today that you wanna share with ourlisteners? You know, as you think about your career, your life, how you'venavigated it as a mom, as a professional, as a businesswoman, as a human, asthe only. As the only. As the only.
43:13
Felicia Williams Johnson
I honestly would say the one thing that we did not cover, that I would say hasbeen critical for me is a village. I have the best support system from myparents when the girls were little to learning how to ask for help, which issomething I thought was a failure or some sort of a weakness. I learned howasking for help is so powerful. And I have the most amazing village. Like mygirlfriends have been. We've been friends for 20, 30 years. We've raised ourchildren together. We've gone through divorces together. We've gone through newmarriages together. We're still together. We're celebrating as a surprise formy Lauren for getting her a new job. We're celebrating a surprise party for herwith all the aunts in the village. Find a village.
43:58
Felicia Williams Johnson
That support is so helpful as a mother when the babies are young. Everybody'sworking for their careers. All of my village are badasses. You know them, everysingle one of them are bad asses. Top number two company in the world. One ofmy best friends in the whole world is the number two chief legal officer forintel. Like badasses. Like, let me be clear. And we've all worked our waythrough and up and we've all done it together. And it has been amazing. So Iwould say that's probably the only thing we didn't cover that I think is reallyimportant, especially as women. Find your tribe. I say that to my daughters allthe time. Find it. I don't care what it looks like, you're gonna need it. Andif you Find it now.
44:45
Felicia Williams Johnson
What a blessing as you're moving through your life with them because there's nojudgment there, you know, and they'll tell you about yourself. Now, Felicia,you know you ain't right. You know, I mean, you want that? You know, lastnight, one of my girl, one of my best friends, Teresa, was like, now, you knowthat wasn't right. I was like, yeah, that was. I need to correct that. Myintegrity was out, girl. And, you know, you want to call me when you get home,make sure you safe, but. And I'll fix that on the way home. Like, she'sabsolutely right. And you want that, you know? No. Yes. No. Yes. Women, theseare women that are like, they want the best for you. So find your tribe, findyour village and make it powerful. Yeah. Support each other. I would say that.
45:17
Felicia Williams Johnson
I would say that. Especially as a mom.
45:19
Mara Kamat
Yeah.
45:19
Felicia Williams Johnson
Yeah.
45:20
Mara Kamat
I've so enjoyed our time together today. I'm leaving after, like beingexhausted and jet lagged coming out of Japan yesterday to feeling just like in,excited and inspired and as a woman, as a mom, as a professional and thinkingabout, like, how do I need to develop more of my tribe, how do I make sure Ikeep that, like, alive and well in the midst of, like, being a mom and a wifeand all the other roles that we play. So I'm just so grateful for how honestand open and candid you are about your life, about your personal, professionaljourney, about your daughters. It like, it was so beautiful and thank you somuch for your time.
46:04
Felicia Williams Johnson
Thank you. Thank you for having me. I love this. I want to acknowledge you forthat and say I'm received and I receive it from you. So I thank you for that.It's been beautiful for my spirit too. So appreciate you both.
46:14
Carrie Aguilar
Good.
46:15
Mara Kamat
And to our listeners, if you enjoyed this episode of In Her Land, be sure tosubscribe, leave a review and share it with someone who could use a littleinspiration today. You can check us out at www.inherland.com.
